Our discussion with Attorney, Don Hart and Medical Doctor, Dr. Tom Kendall, will examine various particular jurisdictional usurpations in family health care. What are the danger zones upon us now in our culture? What can we do about particular threats regarding vaccine mandates, government control over childbirth, and education?

Hey, thanks for joining us for the Church and Family Life podcast. But before we get going with the podcast, I want to tell you about a few things. First, we have a remarkable conference coming up called Jurisdictions Under Fire, church and family in the balance. That is gonna happen October 28th through 30th in the evenings, it'll be live streamed. Hope you can join us with that.

We have some really remarkable communicators that will help us deal with that issue. Also, I just wrote a book called The Family at Church, How Parents Are Tour Guides for Joy. This is a book that is designed to help families fully engage in local church life and make it the sweetest thing ever. Also, our national conference has been scheduled for May 20th next year at Ridgecrest, Theology of the Family. But just before that conference, we're gonna have a singles conference on May 19th.

And I hope you all can come and join us with that as well. And with that, go to our website. We have thousands of resources to equip churches and families to be ordered by the word of God and the word of God alone. And you can get there by going to churchandfamilylife.com. Well, welcome to the Church and Family podcast.

I'm Scott Brown and with me is Jason Dohme, pastor of Sovereign Redeemer Community Church, a comrade in arms. Jason, great to have you man. Hello again. Good deal. Well, Church and Family Life exists to proclaim the sufficiency of scripture for the spread of the gospel across the generations through biblically ordered churches and Families and so this week we're going to continue our discussion on medical tyranny in the last broadcast we focused on just the matters of jurisdiction, it's trying to establish the foundation, the biblical foundation of jurisdictional thinking.

But this time, we're gonna expand the conversation to some of the practical dangers, some of the issues that families and churches, particularly families, are facing today. And we have with us the same guys that were with us last time around, Don Hart and Dr. Tom Kendall, who are eminently qualified to speak to this. Don Hart, an attorney and founder and president of Heritage Defense, dedicated to defending the rights of Christian homeschooling families around the country, and Dr. Tom Kendall, who's been a physician for 44 years.

And so we're just gonna continue this whole matter. We've had a number of things that have disturbed us over the last months in terms of medical overreach. One of the things that disturbed me right at the beginning of this is that the government was now telling my wife what to wear, i.e. A mask. And the question is, does the government have jurisdiction to tell your wife how to practice the care for her own body, what to inject into her body, what to take, what to eat, what is the government doing?

So that's really what we want to talk about. So I wanna just throw the question out to you, brothers. What do you see are the particular overreaches and dangers that we need to pay attention to now? Scott, one of the situations that I was sharing with you brothers a bit earlier sort of illustrates the dangers anyway, and I think it it also illustrates a point that dr. Kendall made in our in our last session with respect to We have to look at whether or not science is being applied biblically?

Is it a dominion taking exercise being applied as God would have it, or is it simply manipulation of information for clearly all kinds of different purposes and you know are we seeing a logical, rational, orderly application of situations which we encounter to the science that would help us to understand it, and most importantly, to the biblical lens through which we should see it. And one situation that came to my attention pretty recently that just illustrates how this can hit home very directly for Christian families. I was made aware of a young mother expecting her first baby, whose husband is in a profession where he is exposed potentially to probably a higher incidence of perhaps contracting the COVID virus than some of the rest of us might experience in daily life. And so they talked to the hospital where they planned to deliver the baby and were told, given their circumstances, that she would be tested when she presented in labor to have the baby, and that if she tested positive for COVID, that the baby would immediately be taken from her and placed in foster care, and she would be separated from her newborn if she was positive for COVID.

This goes directly against even the recommendations of the CDC. Dr. Kendall could probably speak a lot more eloquently to how little sense this makes, but given the incredibly low risk to a newborn of being exposed to COVID compared to the great benefits of being breastfed and nurtured and in the same room as that baby's mother, the CDC itself says this is not indicated in COVID situations. This is a bad idea. Keep the baby with the mama.

Encourage breastfeeding. Take the best care you can of that baby, encourage skin-to-skin contact, do the things that God designed to help babies thrive and do well when they are first born. And yet we see a hospital so confused about things that are going on that that you know they have already taken a stand to do something that that is clearly terrible for a little newborn and it just it clearly things are not being applied rationally logically the The various purposes behind which certain things are going on have really muddled the thinking of lots of folks out there. So That's just one example of what Christian families are running into. Don, what other manifestations of this are there in the arena of childbirth?

Oh, That's probably the most direct example that I know of. But of course, the degree of isolation, fathers are not permitted to be present most of the time when their wives are in labor and giving birth. The one who can be the greatest comfort and encouragement and coach and help and support in a really, really sweet, precious time, excluded because of COVID. Again, does that make sense between a husband and a wife? I don't know how you make the argument that that makes any sense.

Tom, what are your thoughts about the whole pregnancy and birthing process? Well, hospitals did not exist until there were doctors. Doctors established hospitals, they needed a place for their patients, and yet now it's totally reversed because the hospital policies are determined by corporate decision makers and not by physicians. Makers and not by physicians. And so it's a reversal there.

And particularly with regard to pregnancy, I feel so sorry for young pregnant women today because pregnancy is considered a disease to be prevented or cured. And the choices that they have are very narrow and limited. Many fear the hospital because of its statutory kind of demands upon them and the loss of certain obstetric liberties that they would want to take within reason. I mean, they're not unreasonable matters. Some hospital staffs are a little less stringent in requiring certain things.

And so a lot of it has to do with the nurse-patient relationship, which is important as the patient- physician relationship is. Some women, of course, just really take a courageous position. Some physicians say it's a stupid position, a dangerous position to have a home delivery. And I can understand why these young patients are doing that because many times they're treated sort of indifferently and with a degree of distaste really with a certain perspective about pregnancy and about life and about family by even their physicians joking about how many, you know, how many children you're going to have, you know, that sort of thing. So there's really been a decline in reasonableness and rationality in regard to pregnancy.

I family physician delivered babies till about 12 or 13 years ago and one week I got a premium increase in my malpractice $40,000 and so we couldn't even justify continuing to take care of patients and so that's why many physicians today are simply hospitalists. They They're under the jurisdiction of the hospital who pays their malpractice premiums for them. And so, and that speaks to part of the difficulty in medical treatment too. If a doctor is working for an institution or a corporation rather than working for the patient, that determines his decisions and that's not good medicine. It really illustrates the tension that these jurisdictional blunders are creating.

You should be able to go to your physician, you should be able to go to a hospital to receive good medical care, and yet often for various reasons that you're more concerned about the opposite occurring to the point that, what a conflict to create between a doctor and a patient, that there's so much control by outside forces and frankly so much misinformation and lack of understanding that if you go and have a baby, the hospital's gonna do the worst thing for the baby that they could do. Shouldn't be that way. It's not rational. It's not sane. It's not supported by good science.

When you see these kinds of applications, that's when you start looking through and saying okay What you know, what's really going on here? What really is the purpose behind all of this because the application doesn't make any sense. What are some of the other areas of overreach that are at our doorstep now? It's the most prevalent has to do with the vaccination. I mean we are we're in warp speed towards the securing of a vaccination for COVID.

Again, a disease that 99.9% of people recover from, that in itself doesn't make sense. If you look at the track record of the influenza vaccine, you see that there's great divergence of help, the numbers of efficacy of flu vaccination administration through the years. Maybe one year is as good as 40%. Maybe not. But again, here's a here's a very unusual proposal.

That even our national leadership is advocating with federal funding to pharmaceutical companies to warp the speed to get to this vaccination. Wow, that's amazing when you consider that the history of science and vaccination, it would take four or five years for a vaccine to be proven safe, quote, and proven effective. Well, they're warping speed to do that in four, five, six months? No, that's not good science. And I don't think it's good leadership either, because I think the kinds of information that our president is getting is based upon something that's to accomplish something that he's really not for.

I hope he's not for. I really do hope he's not for. I don't know that. I haven't had opportunity to talk to him. But when most every speech that you hear among our national leaders is talking about this time where we'll be safe after the vaccine arrives.

Wow. No. Don't want any part of that. And I can dissect that a little bit more in this discussion if need to, but no, that's not a saving influence for this situation. Well, and not only is efficacy questionable, we've never done great with respect to viruses, but making it universally required is very much on the lips of most of the folks talking about the vaccination plan, so not only are there potential shortcuts and the concern of bad science in developing the vaccine.

Not only are there certainly legitimate questions with regard to its efficacy and possible side effects, but now we're going to take the decision out of the hands of parents with respect to whether their children are vaccinated. We're going to take the decision out of the, out of the hands of the very people who, you know, who are being vaccinated. And is the state going to, is the state really going to come in and mandate this and require it 100% across the board? It's a fluid situation right now. I called one of my representatives a week ago and I said please attend to the governor of our state South Carolina and see is he intending to mandate this vaccine that for covid because if he is we've got to start rising up right now.

Well, and that does hit the nail on the head as to, you know, what do we do about these times in which we're living? Get out ahead of this. We're making at Heritage Defense, we're letting our members know when things are going on, particularly in their state and their jurisdiction. And it does make a difference whenever voices are heard and folks start to make leaders in the state aware of their concerns, of their objections to certain things. And so, you know, the old saying that an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, Scott, you've talked about navigating these things wisely and what do we do and how do we do it without creating offense and putting ourselves in a situation where we have options that aren't great, where we're flatly are faced with only conscientious disobedience and the potential consequences of that and really nothing else.

This is one that folks need to get out in front of. We need to be speaking to these issues and addressing and making these concerns known and that absolutely works. We had a state that, again, another jurisdictional issue that was expressing grave concern over the fact that lots of students were going to be involved in virtual learning instead of in the public schools. And they had One representative of the Education Association, and I'm sort of summarizing, said, you know, look, this is a real problem because this virtual learning business, we don't know who's listening. And we're in the business of destabilizing the beliefs and the systematic racism and other things were described as things that the school was in the business of destabilizing and yet the concern was raised but you know we don't know how well we're going to be able to do that if parents are in the room with these kids.

And so There was a push to keep parents from being present in virtual learning at all. There was a word got out. There was a big outcry. The governor said, no way am I going to require that. Well, they didn't quit.

Now they've kind of made an end run around that and said well okay if you want to avail yourself of the great opportunity of virtual learning from the public schools, parents you're going to sign an agreement that says you will get out of the room and you won't listen in. And one of the phrases that was given in the context of this concern was, you know, we have always had sort of an understanding at school here that what happens here stays here. And so again, let's work our way back to whose jurisdiction is it to disciple the children? And how did we get here? And educators and those representing educators making these kinds of statements, that so far along in what they're thinking about this that the unwelcomeness of parents to even be aware of what's going on, much less to participate, is something that they want to see legislated.

That's sobering. You know, this matter of legislating these things, people are debating whether medical decisions are community decisions or individual or family. And the proposition is you have a duty to protect the community. You brought up the matter of vaccinations and that's an argument that you commonly hear. You need to protect the other people.

It's loving your neighbor and it's not loving if you don't get vaccinated or do whatever. Could you comment about this debate over community decisions, community health versus individual and family? Nobody knows a family like the family itself. Nobody knows children like the parents. And clearly, that is the most informed under the right circumstances, you know, where there's even just a sort of a common level of affection and closeness in a family.

That family knows and cares more about each other than anyone else is going to in that application. And the further you take decision making away from that, the worse the decisions become. It's kind of like government. The further you get from the local, the worse job government does. And really, same principle in so many ways.

Those best suited and who have the greatest love and concern for those affected need to be the ones with the most important voice with respect to decision makings like this. And far more importantly, that's where the Lord is put. That's where Scripture has placed the responsibility to protect, to provide, to care for a family. He's placed that within that family. Not that others can't come alongside and help, but again that starts in the church.

And one of the things we've advocated, one of the problems we've created for ourselves, as we've said, church don't be involved in helping families and in areas of provision where there may be you know temporary situations or even more permanent situations we're gonna we're gonna abdicate that and hand it off to the government. Well again, we've created the vacuum. The government happily fills it. We're living with the consequences. Scott, you bring up the question of what is my role for community and health.

Well, my perspective on this COVID thing is the curve will not be flattened by masking or social distancing. The curve will be flattened when the Heavenly Father who's shaken the earth with it is finished with it. Now, if I get COVID, is he still God? Yes. If I don't get it, he's still God.

And so what responsibility do I have to be sure that my neighbor doesn't get COVID and that's because I took a vaccine? No, that's a distraction. That's not an application of true love and compassion. You know, how does the government accomplish its purposes? By force.

That's established, the sword. Well, what does the individual in the church and the family do for their jurisdictional operation? Well, it's charity. It's love. It's compassion.

And so, again, when the society goes, as the family has gone, then what does the government have to do? Well, it has to step in and establish the safety again. Well, that's just a conundrum that will never solve the problem. Someone wisely says the heart of the problem is the problem of the heart. And it is with this right now too.

And again, God is in control of this virus. He's in control of what men are doing with it. And I think we who claim his name must be careful that we don't submit to Psalm two counsel. That's the burden of my own heart, that some people not submit to Psalm two counsel. And our Lord said, if you live godly in this present world, what?

You will suffer persecution. So when we make wise decisions based upon the truth, the truth, then there will be consequences to that. And I've asked myself the question many years, am I willing to trust God with the consequences of obedience to him? And of course, he's worthy for that confidence and that trust. And as far as being made to feel guilty if you don't get a vaccine because of your neighbor's safety, that's a false guilt.

That's an innovation of man. Tom, you mentioned- It's really an irrational. I'm sorry, Scott. It's really an irrational guilt too. If the vaccine is effective and I choose not to take it and I get sick, then shouldn't you be protected if you've been vaccinated?

So if you have the level of confidence in the vaccine that you're ready to make it mandatory on everyone, shouldn't there be a high level of confidence that it'll be effective and that it'll work? But they betray the fact that they know it doesn't work well by insisting that everyone take it. Absolutely. And so they know it doesn't work. And so the science rationality, good sense, it doesn't make sense.

And when you begin to understand the way this vaccine is proposed to be produced, it's my understanding, and I'm searching this out right now, that it's not going to be produced in the same way other vaccines have been produced. One of the major companies that is on the tip of the spear to produce this vaccination is called Moderna. M-O-D-E-R-N-A. What is that company doing? They're modifying RNA, ribonucleic acid.

Their proposal is that you can introduce a modified RNA into a genome of an organism, a particular species, and you can modify the genome of that species. The proposal is, oh, that would be a good thing to eradicate the mosquitoes in Africa, because then malaria will decline and people will be saved. That sounds wonderful, but who's to say where that stops? Can you also modify the DNA of a ferret? Can you modify the DNA of a human?

And the answer is yes. And so my concern is that the kind of warp speed production of this sort of thing is going to present something to the American public from a medical standpoint that has never been done before in the human context. So the vaccines that they're proposing for this COVID are not the same kinds of vaccines that have been proposed for the past. So there's lots of gaps in knowledge and effectiveness and things like that that have to be weighed in these things. You know, Tom, you brought up earlier, I think something is really important about how plagues start and stop.

Every plague in the Bible starts because God cut it loose and it always stops because God stopped it And it's always done in order to get people to repent of their sins. That really is the doctrine of plagues in the Bible. And it's, That's just, all of them follow that pattern. So the plagues will stop when God stops them, that's for sure. None of us believe that we should disregard care for ourselves or care for our brothers.

But I guess the question that's burning in many people's minds is what about protection of your brother? How does that figure in? Now, Don, you just pointed out that if a vaccine was so protective, why is anybody worried about it? Because if you've got the vaccine, you won't be harmed. So what's the problem?

So any more comments about this matter of responsibility to the community and loving your neighbor? Well here again, defending what would be called true science, God of course is subject to the outcome, but true science, we understand from observing viral illnesses in the past, that there is something that has been termed herd immunity. I don't like that term because we're not animals, we're people. I like population immunity. And I believe that that's a true scientific principle that actually we're truncating right now by our social distancing and by our masking.

The young patients that have been exposed to the COVID virus that are transmitting antibodies and giving protection are something we're damping down right now. And so I believe that's one of the examples of a departure from a true science understanding that is hurtiness right now. And well, again, it will go down. Ebola has gone down. HIV has gone down.

Coxsackie, these, I mean, these viruses, they pass. Now, there is a distinction about the SARS-1 and SARS-2, and it's interesting that some of the data that was learned about SARS-1 is really not being applied to the information how we're managing SARS-2, because drugs like hydroxychloroquine and that sort of thing were found to be effective for COVID that was SARS-1 COVID coronavirus. So again, it does make you wonder, you know, is it just so chaotic and so confusing that the idea de jour is what the media proposes and then what people are being feared, fearful of? Ignorance and fear are the driving motivations right now in all of this confusion. Let's wind up.

I wanna give each of you an opportunity to comment on what biblical responses Christians should consider, how do they navigate these things wisely? What advice do you have for a Christian family experiencing some form of medical tyranny? Don, let's begin with you and Tom, why don't you follow up and then Jason, if you have any comments or questions with that. Well, I probably gave a pretty good hint with respect to some of my thinking on this at the beginning of our previous broadcast, one of the most important things for families and frankly for it really crosses all kinds of lines. It's good for families, it's good for churches, it'll ultimately be good for our country.

There's no downside. We really need to examine our own hearts and we need to repent of the duties that we've shirked and the jurisdictions that we have vacated, which God created. And you talked about the purposes of plagues and what God does sovereignly according to his purposes. God's methods matter very much. The scripture is clear about that.

Ignoring those, deciding we have figured out a better way, or we know a more efficient approach or you know that our tax bill is you know is the supreme consideration for our church and whether or not people are going to donate or whatever the case may be, Individuals need to look to scripture and understand what is the jurisdiction of the family. Inclusive of discipleship of our children, of care and protection and love for our wives and our children. Provision coming from the one to whom God gave that responsibility and duty. I am hopeful and encouraged about many things that I see unfolding even as I am grieved and troubled about many things that I see unfolding even as I am I am grieved and troubled about many things that I see unfolding because I see the Lord at work and I see the opportunity for for repentance and I see where we We ought not just throw up our hands and say, what can we do? We're not in control of all of this.

It's just steamrolling and it's out of control and there's nothing we can do. So agenda item number one in my thinking right now is I need to look at my own heart. We need to look at our own churches. We need to be sure that we are being the church of the Lord Jesus Christ and that as families we are occupying the jurisdiction which God has given us and that we are not forsaking and shirking the duties that we have before the Lord. Pastors need to teach about these things.

We need to just be bold and preach with respect to the truth and pray that the Lord will work in the hearts and minds and give the gift of faith to step out and do what is required in obedience with respect to what God has called a family and a church to be. I think that's where we start. And I think that's one of the most profound things that we can do. More practically, I do think it's a time that requires wisdom and requires understanding the times. And really, I don't mean that to say that it is more practical than what I just described.

But, you know, as we get into pragmatic kinds of applications, you know, Here are some things where the rubber might meet the road. I do think we need to be proactive and informed and aware of what's going on. And I think we need to be well informed with respect to information that we are receiving. And as credibility is affected by contradiction and lies and inconsistency, we need to recognize and continue to ask the question, is this being done according to the lawful jurisdiction of the state? Is this for the preservation of life?

Is this to deal with evildoers? As we look around there are a lot of question marks about that right now. It almost seems in many ways that evildoing is being validated and encouraged and that doing right is coming under increasing attack. I know that's not the scope of this conversation, but again, we need to look and ask, we're getting this information from these sources, what's the credibility and what's really going on. And as we, so we need to be wise and understand the times in which we are living and do what we can to be out in front of these kinds of situations.

Don't just sit back and wait, but be proactive, be good citizens, let our representatives know our perspective with respect to vaccinations and who should be making these decisions. And if if parents are more capable of protecting the the innocent life of their children than than a blanket mandate issued by the government. If we believe that, we should let those who are making laws and setting policy know that. Get out in front, let our voices be heard. I think having good relationships with good doctors, and frankly, with good doctors, as God would define good doctors, Christian doctors who understand the ministry of the practice of medicine like Dr.

Kendall and so many like him. That is one of the most important relationships that families can have And I would encourage every family that hears this broadcast, if you don't have a family physician with whom you have a good relationship and knowledge and trust, that needs to be a priority. It's a part of the times in which we live, and It's something very wise and proactive, which we can be doing. You all know that one of the foundations of heritage defense is Christians coming together to help bear one another's burdens and to help encourage each other. And this needs to be a season of that.

It needs to be happening in the local church, and it needs to be happening in the church universal. And Christian leaders need to have courage and speak the truth. And Christians need to come to the aid, support, encouragement of their Christian brothers and sisters. And we need to love our neighbors and love our Christian brothers and sisters in the way that scripture describes that. So There are a handful of thoughts, probably more than you bargained for, but I'll stop there and yield the floor.

Don't be hopeless. Don't be discouraged. Much of what we're seeing, There are real direct things that are affected whenever God's people repent and turn to Him in obedience and humble their hearts. And the course and direction of this nation could well be one of those things. And we can look.

The opportunity is there. We have the right freedom. It's legal to disciple our children. We need to stop sending them to the public schools to be indoctrinated with respect to lies and to be told that God's a liar. That just needs to stop for Christians.

And there there is real repentance that needs to happen. And pastors need to stop being afraid to preach that and to encourage those who love the Lord to follow him in obedience and to walk in faith. Good, thank you, Don. And let me also just encourage everyone who's listening to go to check out Heritage Defense, some fabulous, very helpful ministry. We've been doing it a long time.

I've had a front-row seat and seeing God bless many families who have turned to Heritage Defense and their legal advice. So Don, thank you for that. Tom, what's your parting shot to these families? Okay, thank you very, very much. This is about God.

This whole thing is about God, and It's amazing that he can even use something like this to bring glory to himself. But as I said earlier, I believe he's shaken the planet. Isaiah spoke of God shaking, and I believe he's doing it to us now. And he's speaking to two groups of people, those who are Psalm 1 people who love Him, who have been given the grace and mercy of saving faith, and they know Him. They have eternal life.

Jesus said, this is eternal life, that they know me. And he's saying to that group, repent, come back to me, follow my way, love my law, love me. But he's also speaking to the ones in darkness, the Psalm 2 group, who are saying, we want nothing to do with him. We're going to live independently of him. But what does he do?

He laughs at them. He scoffs at them. And he says, My son is ruling. He's ruling now, and we believe that he is. He's in control of this.

And so he says to them, kiss the son. So I believe that's what's happening. And as we who know him and have that knowledge, we do not have to be afraid. God didn't give us a spirit of fear, but of power and love and of a sound mind. And one of the means of helping us understand our faith is He allows us to have fear.

Fear is a consequence of my faith being in someone or something other than Him. We are to fear God, and this points to whether or not we are or not. C.S. Lewis had some great words to say about the atomic bomb. Why should Christians fear the atomic bomb?

Men have been dying since men have been here. It's just another means of dying. And so COVID is just another means that God has allowed in this sin-cursed world. I do believe that we need to be Psalm 1 people though, not walking in the counsel of the ungodly. That does cause us to make some applications and conclusions that run difficult right now.

I've seen several patients and they're growing who are having complications from masking. And I'm authorizing them to have a mask exemption because of a problem that they've had medically. And that's not just a minor thing. It's a, it's a very important thing. And the issue of social distancing, these things that are, that are arbitrary, They're not based upon a real understanding of what's happening with the virus and how the virus is.

These are matters of controlling human behavior. So I think we need to be discreet. I think we need to be compassionate. But I think we also need to exercise our senses so that we can discern between what is good and what is evil. And God will give us the heavenly wisdom, He said He would, if we ask for it.

He doesn't condemn us for it, He doesn't upbraid us for it, and it is a pure wisdom. It is a wisdom that is easy to be entreated. It's a wisdom that is predictable and people love that kind of wisdom in contrast to the earthly wisdom which is sensual and it's devilish. And the Lord told us in Luke 18, 1 that men ought always to pray and not to faint. So whatever the trial we're going through, Whatever the difficulty, if we're fainting, if we're giving up, if we're collapsing in it, he said you hadn't prayed.

Prayer is the antidote. Prayer is that reality, And that's one of the means he is teaching us. If we're fainting, what we've done could not have been prayer. It may be religious activity, it may be wool gathering, it may be rosary beads, but it's not prayer because he's told us what prayer does. It gives us an enduring grace.

So I'm so privileged to be a physician, but walk into the room now, everything is COVID. So what that's saying to me is that this is a distraction. It is to get our minds and our hearts and our affections and our ambitions off of Christ onto something else, whether it's security or safety or health or whatever it is. But again, this is about God, and He wants us to come unto Him and find rest and be secure in Him regardless of what's going on in this. I am challenged by our civil leaders who are listening to things and making decisions based upon what they think is best, but I don't think it's foundationally based upon what God has revealed to us about His way, His purpose, His plan.

But I am so glad Luke was a doctor. God used him to write so many words in the New Testament, even more than the Apostle Paul. So I think these things are very precious and intimate to him. And I think he wants us to just, as the hymn writer said, more love to thee, O Christ, more love to thee. Thank you, Tom.

Thank you, Tom. Jason, any parting shots? So I'm a Christian father and a local church leader and I think that means it's incumbent on me to open up my Bible and get very clear in my mind exactly where the boundaries of my jurisdictions, the jurisdictions that God has given me authority in, extend to one so that I don't encroach on jurisdictions where God hasn't given me authority, but more importantly that I don't unwittingly give away authority and responsibility that God has Delegated to me as the ultimate authority that that's who he is king of kings and Lord of Lords Because it is it's easier to defend our boundaries now Than it is to try to claw back things that we've given away either wittingly or unwittingly. Amen. Amen.

Well brothers thank you. Thank you so much for joining us on the Church and Family Life podcast and join us next Monday. We're gonna have Paul Washer to come and join with us to discuss the family at church. So until next time, remember that scripture is sufficient for church and family life. God bless you.

Thanks for listening to the Church and Family Life podcast. We have thousands of resources on our website, announcements of conferences coming up. Hope you can join us. Go to churchandfamilylife.com. See you next Monday for our next broadcast of the Church and Family Life podcast.