Hear Kris Baines, Church and Family Life Regional Facilitator for Australia and New Zealand, tell the story of his conversion as a young person involved in the music industry. It is a story of God’s patience and kindness, rescuing him from the clutches of the enemy of his soul. Follow him from the UK to the US, to the UK, to the US, and to New Zealand to the present.

Welcome, welcome to the Church and Family Life podcast. Church and Family Life exists to proclaim the sufficiency of Scripture, and I've got Jason Dome with me and Chris Baines from New Zealand. Hey Chris, how you doing? Hi Scott, hi Jason, great to be with you. Hey, thanks for joining us.

Now of course Chris is a pastor at Community Bible Church in north of Auckland, a city north of Auckland in the North Island of New Zealand. And Chris is an outpost regional facilitator. He knows everything that's going on with Church and Family of Life regional facilitators. We're really grateful for your work there. He operates a ministry called Eternal Purpose Ministries.

Chris, we're just really glad for you, and we're thankful for what you're going to do now. You're going to tell us the story of your conversion, how God saved sinners, at least that sinner, you, And all the ways that God and his kindness led you along the way until finally he got you. And so we just want you to tell the story. You know, we do a lot of theological didactic things, and there's nothing sweeter than to hear of the work of God in the heart of a sinner. So, tell us your story.

Sure. I was born in the UK, as you can probably still tell from the accent, and grew up there. I was part of, I guess you could call, a normal family, eldest of three brothers. My parents loved me, wanted to do the best for me. We weren't a Christian home or a religious home.

We wouldn't have said that we were anti-God. At that time, there was still a lot of influence in the school that I attended. We would have sung hymns. We would have heard even little stories about Jesus. I probably went to Sunday school a number of times also.

And I guess I remember filling in a form one time and saying to my mom, I'm a Christian, right? And she said, no, Church of England. And that was the thing that people would say. So it was kind of a nominal idea of Christianity, but no real commitment or anything. So as I grew up, I started to get a love for music and I started to think about what I was gonna do with my life at around age 16.

I was heading towards going to the army, and I went through the testing process, and I had the final interview. The sergeant there was talking to me and he said, from the amount that you're talking about music in this conversation, I think you should probably pursue a career in music, not the army. And that was some good advice at the time. So I changed tracks and that's what I started to try and do. And so very early on.

He didn't want to put you in front of the marching band, you know, in front of the troops. No, no way. They didn't hear the drums and the flutes didn't attract me at that time. Yeah, an acoustic piano. Oh, by the way, you have to listen to Chris Baines acoustic piano songs.

You've just you're such a wonderful player, the piano. Tell us where where you people can find that stuff. So I have a website, Chris Baines with a K, that is, chrisbanes.com. And yeah, there's all the music there that if you'd like to. It's the kind of music that I describe as emotive music, so it's not an offense if it causes you to fall asleep, but please don't listen to it while you're driving or operating heavy machinery, I would say.

You know, you did this beautiful rendition of the New Zealand national anthem after the earthquake in Christchurch. What a beautiful thing. Just Google that. They would Google defending New Zealand. Is that what they would Google?

And Zach, yeah, God defend New Zealand. That's their national anthem. Yeah, there you go. Anyway. And It's not green screen.

It's real scenery here. I wondered about that when I saw that. Did he really take that piano out on that cliff? Sorry to divert us, but go ahead. That's okay.

The acoustic kind of wasn't easy to carry along in battle. From that point, Army was out and I decided to pursue music. And I started playing some sort of top 40 cover bands. I went over to Europe for a bit of a tour around American Army bases. Actually, that was my first introduction to meeting Americans.

And then I continued to pursue that life. I then went to music college. And at that point, I think I started to get into that whole scene more of the drugs and the drinking and the promiscuity. And that was what characterized my life. All through this time, I had always wanted to make something of my life.

I'd always said to people, I want to be something, I want to do something, I just don't want to be in my same hometown the rest of my life like everybody else. So there was all this ambition, misguided ambition, but ambition nonetheless. And so Halfway through my year at college, I had some contact with a friend in Los Angeles. Of course, Los Angeles, the entertainment capital of the world, he was a guitarist. He was living over there trying to make it.

He said, why did you come over? So I did this terrible thing of selling the keyboard that my parents were still paying for and got my ticket and flew to LA. And then my poor mother got this phone call a month later saying, I'm gonna stay here and become rich and famous. That was my idea then. I was there living in Los Angeles.

I was living there, cleaning houses in Hollywood, legally to make my way and playing in different bands. Eventually, I got into a band of some excellent musicians, top quality musicians, and we started to take things seriously and started to get some opportunity. I was sharing an apartment with the singer at the time, and he and I were great friends and very committed to music. What happened after a while was his brother, who was into all the same things as me, and by this time I was very much into, as well as the kind of lifestyle that goes along with the music business often, I was into new age thinking, borderline occult thinking, visualization, because I knew there had to be something more. I just wasn't content with what I felt was the mundane.

And so my friend's brother, who was on the same page as me, suddenly announces he's become one of these born-again Christians. And I wasn't anti-God, I would have said, even though I believe God created the world, I'm just not religious. I'm not like those weird, happy, clappy people. And so here we are in this rehearsal room where we would regularly go. We're drinking and playing our music.

It was kind of funk rock music. And this friend came and sat down in the corner just reading his Bible. And it was quite disconcerting because he just sat there quietly reading and any it's like he emanated contentment and peace louder than our music and we had these discussions and I was very argumentative I would say I know who God is and I don't need to get serious about that. And we would debate and argue all the same things. After some time, the singer who I was sharing the apartment with, he was becoming an influence.

And he started to say that he was more serious. And then he becomes a Christian. I think, oh, Jeremy, It's happening all around me. And I distinctly remember saying to someone, I want to do everything and be everything and experience everything I can. Then maybe I'll settle down and become one of these nice Christians.

Brilliant. So I decided I should move out the apartment so I could, I guess, sin without so much guilt. And as I went to leave to my own apartment, he handed me a Bible and said, hey, bro, I got this for you. And I remember looking at it, feeling the weight of, where will I put this so I don't feel guilty? And I honestly believe at that point, that was the Holy Spirit was beginning to come alongside and convict me.

I couldn't shake it. Funny enough, a couple of ladies knocked on the door, little old ladies, and they were Jehovah's Witnesses, and they gave some gospel tracts. I didn't know what they were. And as, again, misguided as they were, they had some real scriptures on, and I put them under my pile of books on a desk. They rose to the top, and I put them under.

I couldn't get rid of them. I thought I'd get struck by lightning or something. So here am I feeling, I guess, condemned in some ways or guilty. So I moved to my apartment, and then my friend takes it a step further, and he starts to hand me a tape that says, Bible study tape. And just those words made me cringe and I was like, oh, I'm not sure about that.

But I'll say this, on the inside, I wanted to know more, but the pride was so dominant, I didn't want him to know that I wanted to know more. So I often say to people today, don't read the face because I wasn't gonna let him know that I was interested, but he forced that thing in my hand and I was glad he did. So I get home, put on my Sony Walkman and start listening to this tape. And I was hooked straight away because there was a preacher preaching, but he was preaching about the occult and about the new age. And what stood out was that he wasn't saying it was a load of rubbish.

He was saying it was real, but it was not of God. It was dangerous. And so I kept listening. I kept listening. He did this whole message.

And then at the end, he said he was going to share the message of how you can become a Christian, the gospel. And I stopped the tape. I don't want to turn into one of these Christians yet. I thought it would turn me into a Christian. God continued to convict me.

Everywhere I looked, I was feeling this kind of conviction. My friend was changing and becoming more committed. So I listened to the tape again. And this time I thought, I'll listen to this kind of prayer, this gospel presentation, but I'll whistle as I listen so I don't get sucked in. I just want to hear the word.

So I'm sitting there listening. Okay. And then after that, you know, the Lord was working in my heart. I remember listening and it was essentially it was the sinner's prayer, but with a solid gospel that was proclaimed. And, you know, I don't advocate the sinner's prayer as a form of leading someone to salvation, but as we know, it's not the prayer that saves someone, but you can be saved praying the sinner's prayer.

And I know for me, I was ready, I was right, I finally realized this is all I have been seeking in the wrong places. I wanted to know where I've come from, why I'm here, where I'm going. And so I just got down on my knees and I must have prayed a hundred times, you know, prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed, and it was genuine, real repentance. From that moment, what was really, I guess, impacting to me was there was no church I was part of, there was no discipleship, But my friend had passed on to me a whole load of expository teaching tapes and some Christian books, and I just devoured them and read them. Every now and again, I'd switch the TV on and I'd see a prosperity preacher, and I'd be like, oh no, I don't want anything to do with that and switch the TV off again.

So I didn't know about church, I thought they were all strange, but I knew about God and I knew about the Word of God. What was interesting about this was that the Holy Spirit through the Word of God convicted me. So me and my friend are having conversations like, I'm not sure we should do this anymore. I remember reading with him the passage about, if your right hand calls you to sin, cut it off. And we literally stood there talking to each other saying, what are we going to do?

I mean, do we literally have to cut our hands off? How do we navigate through this? But the Holy Spirit convicted me and I would describe it as it wasn't guilt then, it was grief. It was grief that I was hurting this person. I didn't know any better.

And as soon as that conviction came, then I stopped that activity, right? There was a change in my life. We then got to be part of a Church of Christ in Hollywood, which was a cult. I didn't know that. We thought, this is great.

Actors, musicians, you know, we'll buy into this. Then they wanted us to do studies and get baptized, then become a Christian. And by God's grace, it was the expository teaching that gave me enough discernment to realize this is not correct. And so we moved away from that and then I managed to find a church, a Calvary Chapel, And that was the first time I was in a church where they took the word of God seriously. I could be discipled.

But it was just a short period of time. I was illegal in the country. And as the Holy Spirit's working on me, I'm working for Teddy Sowers Company. And I thought, I shouldn't be calling these illegal towers. I'll stop that.

A few days later, I shouldn't actually be not paying tax. I need to stop that. And the boss looked at me like I was strange. A few days later, I don't think I should even be in a job. So I stopped that.

And then a week later, I go to the pastor. I don't think I'm supposed to be in the country. Help. So this church paid for me to get back home and leave. At that time though, the band, two of us had become Christians, others were interested.

We thought, well, that God's going to use this vehicle, we're going to become a band and glorify God. But that was not God's plan. So I left and the plan was to get a deal that had started to materialize, a record deal, in place so I could come back and do things properly. So I come back to England, need to find a church. I thought I was the only Christian in my area, I literally did.

So I go through the yellow pages, phoning up churches. Do you believe in the Trinity? That's all I said. Do you believe in the Trinity? First one that said yes, I went along on Sunday, I walk in and I saw my wife's, now wife's family and my future wife, Becky.

And this is a story here. I went to school with Becky's older sister, so I'm five years older than Becky. When I was at school, they were the strange, weird Christian family. I remember hearing about baptisms, going to church, and they would have thought I was a bit of a, you know, a lad, as we would say. And here am I walking into church, and they just couldn't believe that this guy, Chris Baines, had been to America and come back and he's now a Christian.

So I mean, there's more to the story, but that was the process that got me to that point, got saved, got back to England, but I was still attached to the music at that point too. Isn't that something? How long, so how long did it take for you and Becky to get together? Not too long. So before I left LA, I remember going into a car park and I'm not someone who necessarily easily cries all the time, but I was moved and touched and torn because I knew it was right to go back and leave the band in God's hands.

And I was praying for a wife very much, even though I'd only been a Christian for four months, I realized that this was a good thing to pray for. And I sat in that car park and I just gave it all to the Lord. When I got back to England, very quickly as I started to talk to Becky, I realized I would love a wife like Becky. And the more I got to know her, my prayers changed to I would probably like maybe a wife who is Becky. And I did get a funny look from her mother when I said, you know, my plan was three months, I think we'll be done and dusted.

And here am I with, you know, still with a long hair and earring and a pair of glasses with one arm just fresh out of Hollywood and all this kind of stuff. So but what drew us together, I guess, was, was she was encouraged by the change in my life. She'd been brought up in a Christian home and she appreciated that, you know, much love because much had been forgiven. And there was a dramatic change. I genuinely felt I don't deserve to come into this.

Look at my background. But that was a time of seeing God's grace and mercy. And so, yeah, we were in the church that she had been brought up in, and I was continuing to listen into the teaching tapes over and over again. And at that point, I guess, God started to do something in my heart where I couldn't understand how I had a developing love for something greater than music, and that was for God's Word. With the band, things were still in place to go back.

Becky's path, my path, were on different directions. She was going to university, I was going back to the band, and then one Sunday in church in the sermon, I was really praying about wisdom and the preacher was preaching on Elijah where it gets to the point where God says to Elijah, what are you doing here Elijah? And God just used those words to me, what are you doing going back to that? And so I actually picked up the phone and I cancelled everything with the band, feeling it was not the right direction. And this devastated my family.

This ruined the career of the band members, and it led to me and the singer, because he was on the same page as me. He followed after spending three years paying off the legal fees for breaking the contract. But God was teaching me, I believe, at that time, very early on. I was still only six months a Christian or so. That sometimes your obedience to me is going to hurt the people you love the most.

Six months later, we found out the band got ripped off. So God was protecting us. But at that point, I realized my life needs to be about something more than this idol of music. And so God birthed in my heart an increasing desire for his word. I had a friend who was in prison for committing a very threatening act with a firearm.

And I'd been writing to him and he had responded to the faith and he invited me in and they said, share your testimony to this group of prisoners and I'd never done this before and I started to share my testimony then I said all these little quotes I'd read in books or heard in sermons and oh this is this is just flowing and at the end the leader he had noticed two young men very, very convicted. And, you know, I don't know the fruit of this, but at that time, he said these two young men were so convicted that he said that he'd led them to Christ. So I came home and I remember just getting on my knees and again, just weeping before the Lord. And I said, if the whole music thing was to be laid down so that these two men could have eternal life, Lord, it's worth it. And I guess that was the beginning of just a sense of something more eternal value than the temporal pursuits of this world.

So, so you were back to that phase where you were saying, hey, I want to do everything I want to do, and then I'll turn to God. I'll get that out of the way first. So what would you tell somebody who's thinking like that right now? Well, this world offers a lot, but it disappoints too. My plans were to experience what I wanted to do, have my will.

God had other plans. And so I would say that if there was somebody in that situation, God will catch up with you. And it's a good pursuit. I don't think I changed my own mind. I think the Holy Spirit was working in my heart.

And it was God's time. But the deception I had was that I'll get more enjoyment from pursuing the things of the world than I will becoming a Christian. I had no idea that when I, you know, there was that release, that surrender to God, the joy of knowing him was so much greater than that. And by God's grace, the music was something that has come back into my life later on because it was no longer an idol. There was an ease to that.

But yeah, I'd say to that young person, it's better to have nothing and have Jesus than have everything and not have Jesus. Amen. So also, Chris, what were the words or phrases or doctrines or sermons that moved you the most, just thinking back. In the early Christian life? Yeah, yeah, that moved your soul to be born again, that made you want to be born again.

Okay. What was it? So, I guess, you know, I've been reading a few books before I became a Christian that spoke of the authenticity of the Bible. I had been listening to, as I said, this tape where the gospel was proclaimed, I think the fact that Jesus, I would have had a workspace mentality, so I didn't understand that nothing I did would account. I thought maybe I'll be good enough to get to heaven.

So I guess the truth of Scripture that it was all Christ, that my sin stacked up against me and counted for nothing apart from eternal judgment, that Christ's righteousness will become mine, And there was this great exchange. So realizing that I could just give it all to him and he would give me a brand new life was key for me. And the forgiveness aspect, Because I'd been living in sin and I genuinely felt these things were wiped away. So I guess that was very impacting that the grace of God, that if we confess our sins, his faith, and just to forgive us and cleanse us of all righteousness, that was really the things that just stood out. I could be forgiven and clean and start again.

It was a brand new start, full of lots of sorries. Oh my, that's so wonderful. So you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. Amen. Isn't that great?

What a wonderful thing. Okay, just one last question. How old were you when you were born again? So I was 22. 22.

And I'm 49 now. 49 now. Praise the Lord. Well Chris, thank you so much for sharing. That was a beautiful story.

It's always a joy to hear how God captures sinners and then pleases them like they've never been pleased before. Amen. Thank you. Thank you, brother. And thank you for joining us on the Church and Family Life podcast.

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