In February of 2021, pastor James Coates was arrested and jailed for conducting worship services in his church in Alberta, Canada. In this podcast, he explains what he learned from the experience.

Welcome to the Church and Family Life podcast. Church and Family Life exists to proclaim the sufficiency of Scripture. And we're really here to talk about various applications of the sufficiency of Scripture relating to the civil government, particularly tyrannical actions of the civil government. You know, our only hope is in God alone and in His Word. And so, as we face these kinds of things, we have to make a beeline to the Word of God.

So, we have with us today to help us do that Pastor James Coates. Hey, James. Hey, guys. How you doing? Good.

Glad to have you back with us again. And of course, James is a pastor at Grace Life Church in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. And James had a really interesting experience a little while back when the government shut his church down, then put a fence around it while he was in jail. So, you know, moments like that are critical for the Church because it drives the Church to try to think biblically about what is happening and how to respond. And we're just so thankful to have the Word of God to guide us through everything, and it does.

And so we want to just ask you about lessons learned from your experience. What was God teaching you through His Word, and how did you apply it? So talk to us. Maybe first of all, just talk to us about what happened from your perspective and then we'll go into some of the lessons learned. Well, basically, because we were getting complaints with respect to our gathering and not being compliant with the health orders, we began to receive attention from our health authority.

And they began, along with the RCMP, which is our law enforcement, to employ different tools to bring us into submission. And so we ultimately were continually faced with hurdles whereby we would have to determine whether or not we would be obedient to Christ or obedient to the governing authorities. And we just continue to stand firm and be resolved in our commitment to obey Christ. And as those hurdles came to us just one week at a time, step by step, we continued to be faithful to the Lord and ultimately all of their attempts to bring us into submission failed even to the extent that I was imprisoned. And the effect of my imprisonment has just been unbelievable.

Having been at G3 this past week, we got a taste of just how the Lord has used that, not just in our own country, but in the U.S. For example. And it's just a wonderful example of what Satan intends for evil, God intends for good. Christ is building his church. Absolutely, go ahead.

Yeah. Amen. Yes. That's the lesson, isn't it? So you mentioned incremental measures that the government took.

They kept working on particular levers over time. How did that play out? What were they? Well, they began coming into our services, AHS did, with the RCMP, so there was presence at our facility. They ultimately took us to court and brought us into the courtroom, where we were ordered by the court to comply with their health orders.

That meant that if we continued to meet under the headship of Christ, then we would be potentially held in contempt of court. Contempt of court in Alberta comes with up to two years of imprisonment. And so they used the court system. We ended up meeting anyway and essentially called their bluff. And they were unwilling at that point in time to take us back to court to hold us in contempt because that could result in imprisonment and they weren't ready yet to put a pastor in prison.

From there they ordered our church to be shut down and closed and so they basically put an order in place that required that we close the building off to all of the public, which would include our members of course, and so we continued to be non-compliant with that. And then they used the RCMP to employ a tool called an undertaking where I was placed under arrest on February 7th and in the undertaking was being ordered to comply with the Public Health Act. I indicated at that time that I couldn't do that. And so they wrote where my signature would have gone, refused to sign. I was still at that point in time, ultimately under obligation to comply with that condition.

And we met the following week, February 14th, that's when I preached directing government to its duty and was subsequently required to turn myself in on Tuesday, February 16th. And at that point I was brought before a JP, a justice of the peace. And in that hearing, I was given a release condition that required that I comply again with the Public Health Act. So everything is all about compliance. They are just trying to get us, get me to comply with the Public Health Act.

And we're saying we cannot do that. And so when I got to the JP, and it was going to be the difference between imprisonment or compliance, they just assumed that I would take compliance. I mean, who in their right mind would choose jail over complying with the health orders at that point in their estimation? Well, they don't realize who they're dealing with, that we are citizens of heaven, and so we have a higher authority that we subject ourselves to. And so I couldn't comply because that would either mean that I would have to bring the whole church under the Public Health Act and give up the headship of Christ over his church, or I'd have to stay home while my church continued to meet in non-compliance and I wasn't going to do either of those things.

So I refused to sign the condition and that resulted in imprisonment. Again, they did not see that coming. It was a miscalculation. As soon as I got into prison, it didn't take me long to realize that the prison didn't want me there. The government didn't want me there.

I don't even think AHS, the health authority wanted me there. It was a huge miscalculation on their part. And so there were things happening on the inside where the prime minister was even sending requests to have me contact different people. I got a phone call from a politician who spent the whole 20 minute phone call trying to get me to capitulate on my conviction. And he was trying to come at it from a Christian perspective and using the Bible to get me to do that.

And so, I figured out really early on they didn't want me there. And then over time, I guess I just proved to them that I was truly a man of principle, at which point they came back with a deal that would allow me to get out of prison without compromising my integrity. What was this politician's biblical case? Well, it's all the stuff you've heard before, right? This is not a Daniel 3 moment, you know, Romans 13 requires that we submit to government.

This is not persecution, it's a health issue. It's all the typical stuff that you would expect to hear. Amazing. Okay, so put on your shepherd's hat and, you know, give some pastoral counsel based on what you've learned to your brethren around, you know, who might be listening to this, who might find themselves in similar situations? Well, I think number one, you have to have conviction on what is non-negotiable with respect to the corporate gathering of the church.

And if it's non-negotiable, then all you have to do is stand. Just don't budge. Don't move. In the context of a tyrannical government, pastors and elders have the responsibility of standing between the government and our people. We have a responsibility of protecting our people from the governing authorities.

And so if the government says you can't sing, you've got to have it settled that that's a non-negotiable. We're singing. When the government says your people have to wear masks, you have to go, we can't do that. We're not going to override the consciences of our people and become the enforcement arm of the government and require our people to mask. We can't do that.

We have a responsibility as pastors to protect the consciences of our people. A significant part of our ministry is to be a steward of the consciences of our people by informing them from the scriptures on the truth, but also respecting the fact that when push comes to shove, anything not done from faith is sin. And so we've got to be a steward of their consciences. And then when it comes to, you know, matters like social distancing and, and, you know, capacity limits, we've got to be just rock solid ongoing. We can't comply with that.

We can't force our people to comply with that. We're not the enforcement arm of the government. We can't tell our people that they can't do the work of service that we're to equip them to do. And so I think you've got to have some non-negotiables and then you just stand. You just don't budge.

I mean, the government's going to come, they're going to press, they're going to employ all kinds of Mechanisms they're gonna threaten they're gonna use fear. They're gonna threaten with with with fines Imprisonment and you just go I can't move I'm not gonna move from here So you got to have that conviction. And as you have that conviction and you truly are convinced in your mind that that's what this requires, the Lord is going to give you the grace that you need to stand in those moments, that as the pressure raises and as particular moments come with the heat of enforcement, he's going to give you the grace you need to stand in those moments. He's going to supply you with what you need. You don't need to worry about the unknown or what's going to come tomorrow.

He's going to give you everything you need for the moment you're in and His grace is sufficient. So I think that's critical. I think also it's important to recognize that should you end up in prison, you are going to see that God is with you. Psalm 139, He is omnipresent. You cannot flee from His presence.

God will be with you in jail. All of the same providences that you've experienced in your life up to that point in time, you're going to continue to experience in jail. And to kind of even, you know, paint even a fuller picture of that, I can look back at the last year of everything that's happened in my life. And I can say without a doubt that God worked in the last year the same way he's always worked in my life. Every time in my life that I've had to take a stand for obedience, unconviction, with my principles intact, the Lord has always blessed that.

And I saw him work in the last year the same way he always has. And so you'll see God work the same way he always has. All of the providences that you have seen in your life up to that point in time, you will experience the same providences in a season like that. So he's with you, he will watch over you, he will protect you, and you'll just see him continue to use everything for good. I can look at that last year and I can say that there isn't a single way that we are worse off personally, as a family, as a church, in every way.

We are better off for having gone through what we did. And not just that, but we can see how we were used by God to bless the broader evangelical church, the true church of Jesus Christ, because we have just seen the support that has come from all over the world for the stand that we've taken. And so I think that that can put some fuel in your tank and some wind in your sail to be able to press on in the face of government tyranny. James, has the government changed their posture towards churches that are insisting on meeting? You know, that's a really good question.

We're trying to figure that out because right now we are in a another health emergency. So because cases are up, because I guess the vaccine is not the silver bullet that everyone thought it would be or, or whatever. Cases are up and so we're back in another emergency. And so we're at the third Sunday now that we've met in non-compliance and there hasn't been any enforcement at this point in time. The first two Sundays, we had an RCMP vehicle park kitty corner to our church and they were there for like two minutes and left.

So we've seen vehicles around but there's been no enforcement so far and we're trying to figure out just what will take place. I mean at this point in time the government's going to have to evaluate whether or not they want to put the spotlight back on us because in reality, we took the stand that we took and in hindsight, they may have actually gone about it differently. The problem was, I think, that last year it got so public, they had to win. They had to bring the enforcement arm of government against us. And it didn't go well, but they couldn't back off because of how public it was.

And so now they have to ask, do we really want another battle like that? I mean, even as you think about what's happening in the world today, where there seems to be an agenda that's global, that there's an increase in government totalitarianism, they have to evaluate as they push their agenda, do they really want to put resistors on display? Because courage is more contagious than COVID. And so as we take a courageous stand, you end up putting courage in the spine of others, and they stand as well. And so, they've got to count the cost on whether or not they even want to give visibility to a church like ours.

So, hey, I want you to tell us about your book in a minute, but I've got a question. How did you answer, or how do you answer the people who say, loosen up, James. You know, it's no sin to wear a mask, it's no sin to social distance. You know, God didn't issue a command in that regard, so, you know, why are you disobeying that? Because, you know, God hasn't prohibited it.

How do you, how have you answered that? Well, it's so multifaceted. I mean, on the one hand, you can say, well, it's no sin to wear a mask in and of itself, but it's sinful for me to require someone to wear a mask that thinks it is. And so you can you can address me as an individual, but I'm responsible for an entire flock. And I can't impose on the minds and hearts of people what they clearly are unwilling to and cannot submit to.

So there's that end of it. But even more than that, I think what's evident at this point in time is that the entire COVID virus is being used to impose on society a lie that would then bring society to a place of submission through fear in order that governments can usher in an agenda that's going to ultimately restructure society as we know it. So now the issue is, can I comply with a lie? I Do not believe this is a health issue. And I would just say this, that if you at this point in time believe that this is primarily a health issue, you are out of touch with reality.

You've got your head in the sand. You need to wake up. This is not about a virus. It's not about hospital capacity. It's not about any of that.

This is about an effort toward globalism and toward ushering in a new world order to some extent. I mean, Western civilization as we know it is going to be restructured if we do not resist this government tyranny. And I don't think that's an overstatement. I mean, I'll be honest with you. No, I don't either.

I really don't. I think that's exactly what's happening. I went down to G3 and had some really important conversations with some knowledgeable people, and it's just solidified my mind on this all the more. I am completely convinced that we did exactly the right thing last year, And I am convinced that now is the time to stand all the same, that this is the time, the time is now. And whether you're facing a vaccine, for example, that's being imposed upon you, this is the time to stand, not two weeks from now, not a month from now, not six months from now.

This is the time. This is the time to fight. This is the time to die on the hill that you're being presented with. And so, I think this is the time to fight. Jared Sussman Wow, I couldn't agree with you more, James.

I appreciate you saying it that way. Also, you're writing a book that's going to come out next year. Tell us about your book. Yeah, I mean, that book's pretty much done. I was approached by Nathan Buznitz.

He is the Dean of the Master Seminary, and he's a pastor at Grace Community Church with John MacArthur. And he wanted to tell the GCC story and all that they went through with their government and he was inviting me to join him in telling our story and then in the the book itself as well there'd be a framework for how to think through when to oppose the governing authorities when they're stepping outside of their lane and are beginning to enter into government overreach. And so, you know, my contribution to that book is primarily our story, the Grace Life story, and then as well the two sermons that I preach that really come to bear upon this issue have been reworked and included in that book as well. And so I would say that if you want to kind of have a start to finish look at what we went through, and it's written from a very personal perspective, I've told the story of all that I went through in that time. And it's in that book.

And it would be the fullest, clearest treatment of all that we experienced last year and so I think it would be a compelling read. Nathan tells the story of what GCC went through, His telling of the story is more of a bird's eye view of what they experienced. And then I provide a very sort of personal first person description of what we went through. And the feedback that we've gotten on it, as we've had many people come in and read it has been very positive and we're excited for it to come out. We think it would be very useful to the broader evangelical church.

And it comes out March, 2020. The real sort of launch date for it is the Shepherd's Conference in March, sorry, 2022. And yeah, looking forward to it. Hey, that's great. Hey, this has been a blessing.

Any last things you'd like to say, particularly to pastors who are trying to grapple with all these things? Yeah, you know, I think I mentioned this in the book, and I think it's worth noting, we see in Scripture a lot of language revolving around trials that ties into endurance. And I can remember there were points in time last year when we were in the heat of the moment, and there was a weariness that was setting in. And I was wondering just how long I could keep this up. And There was a point in the whole saga that I reached this place of spiritual endurance that all of the athletic imagery of the New Testament came to life.

I got to this place where I felt like I could go forever. And so if you've ever run cross country, for example, you've done any kind of long distance running, there's a point in a race where you get your second wind and you're able, you just think you could run forever. And that happened in the context of this trial. I'd never experienced anything like it, but it was a level of endurance spiritually where I just thought I could go until the Lord returns. And it's a thrilling place to be.

And you just know you've got a mission. You gotta get the ball over the goal line and you're just gonna do whatever you can to do that and to score. And so as you go through difficult times, thinking about what could be coming down the pipe for all of us, there are gonna be moments of weariness, but just press on through that one day at a time, trust the Lord, and He's gonna ultimately bring you to a place of endurance where you're gonna be able to go all the way to the end, and there's great blessing for those who persevere in the midst of trial. We know James won. So, maybe just a word of encouragement from that perspective.

Amen. Amen. Absolutely. Well, James, hey, it's been a thrill to talk to you and hear your story. And We serve a risen king who has given us all we need for life and godliness, and he's given us enough in his word to know how to navigate all these waters.

What a blessing that is to know how to do it. He's given us many examples in Scripture, many commands, and so we don't have to go in blindly at all. And you've kind of paved the way for a lot of people to help them think things through, and we really, really appreciate how the Lord has done that. So thanks for joining us, brother. It is my pleasure, truly.

I mean, who would have thought, you know, way up here in Edmonton, Alberta, the Lord would use a guy like me? It's pretty overwhelming, but I'm grateful to him, and he is the king of kings and lord of lords and he is worthy. And so Let me just say this, you know paul washer He he spoke at josh bison's church on sunday and I was there for that. I I preached that morning as well and He just brought his his time in the Word to a point where we would pray that, Lord, whatever you need to do to glorify yourself, whatever you have to do to my body, if you have to crush me, whatever you need to do to bring honor and glory to yourself, do it. And I think that's the place we need to be.

And I know I've been brought to that point and I want to just, Lord, whatever you've got to do to bring glory to your name through my life, even if it costs me immensely, then do that. And so, yeah, Lord willing, we can all be in that place and go to war. Yes, praise the Lord, praise the Lord. Yeah, and thank you for joining us on the Church and Family Life podcast. We'll see you next time.

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