What do you need to know about your pastor? Do you understand what is pressing upon him? It has been recently reported that 51% of pastors are considering leaving the ministry in 2022, up from 29% in the previous year. Depression, church conflict, losing members, criticism, and low pay are the culprits. What can church members do about this?

Carlton McLeod’s Burnings in the Soul Message:  https://churchandfamilylife.com/resources/62b471b6abdc5044b1bc5503

� Welcome to the Church and Family Life podcast. Church and Family Life exists to proclaim the sufficiency of scripture. And so I'm here, of course, again, with Jason Dullam. Hey, Jason, here we go again. Hello.

Good to see you. Hey, we get to talk to Carlton McLeod, our buddy from Chesapeake. Hey, Carlton. Hey, friends. How are you guys doing today?

Good. Doing great. Yeah. � and I'm really glad to have you on. We're gonna talk about 10 things you should know about your pastor but we we learned these things from you, Carlton.

Now you you preached to a bunch of people about this subject at our national conference and we thought it was really really helpful so we want to bounce off of that message that you gave you know I'm reading recently that 51 percent of pastors are considering leaving their churches here in twenty twenty two which is up from twenty nine percent the purveys sheer my depression church conflicts losing church members criticism those things you know figure and to it there's a pastor who created a retreat center for pastors who were hurting and he said that the number one factor in influencing a pastor's assessment of a vocational ministry transition is money. So you have a lot of different things. There are arrows, slings and arrows that come to pastors, and so it can get very hard. You know, the Apostle Paul dealt with this. He talked about it in 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians 1, 8.

He said that they were under great pressure, distressed, could hardly endure, to the point that even the apostle Paul despaired even of life itself. Wow. You know, maybe a little bit like Job, maybe a little bit like Elijah. And so we're doing this maybe to help people in the church to think about what their pastors might be experiencing. They might not be aware of what the challenges that pastoral care in a local church can be.

So you talked about 10 things you should know about your pastor. You said these are observations that probably apply to most good men who are in the ministry at different times. So we're just going to run down through the ten and see where we go from there. So the first thing he said is that he at times can be insecure about what kind of job he's doing for our Lord and you. He's particularly vulnerable before and after he preaches.

Also week to week swings impact him more than you think absolutely absolutely yeah it's you know it's it's one of those things where you know as a shepherd as a pastor as a leader in the church hopefully a humble leader in the church, you're supposed to be... Too many of us take on this persona as kind of a super guy that nothing ever gets to us, nothing ever bothers us. But as a good, dear friend of mine, it says often we're just sheep with a microphone And that's really all we are. And so the same kinds of fears, the same kinds of, you know, the need for encouragement and so forth affects the pastor, just like anybody else. And I've noticed just in my own 25 years and talking to other pastors that insecurity, maybe not feeling like he did such a great job, particularly, you know, when he's, he's poured his heart out in the pulpit and he comes down from the pulpit and somebody says, you know, that was good, but last week was better.

Or, you know, that was, you know, some, some guy on YouTube, I heard priest that message, but did a better job than you or any of those kinds of things. Well, I tell you, you know, you, he might laugh it off, but you know, 8 p.m. That night he's thinking about. � You know, frankly, sometimes I feel sorry for our people because they have to get the preaching from a person who has intellectual limitations, knowledge and limitations, spiritual limitations, personality limitations. And, you know, it can be discouraging to even, you know, think about because you're aware of your own weaknesses.

Right. Very much so. J.C. Ryle frequently says in his writings, the best of men are at best men. So one thing you should know about your pastor is he's just a man.

The discouragements that you have, there's a counterpoint in his own thinking and life. The frailties that you have, there's a counterpoint in his own life. Even the best of men, the best they can ever be as men and we all have these frailties and discouragements. That's right. And so much of his world revolves around gathering the Lord's people on the Lord's Day, and so much of who he is, rightly or wrongly, is predicated upon how that went so often.

And so yeah, not to make an excuse for it, but he can struggle greatly if things don't go well. And then another one that you have, � is he hurts easier than you think your words actions and expressions matter he needs encouragement more than you think build that into your routine it'll pay off in the long term yeah you know the right of Hebrews tells us that you know when you're a when you're someone who walks in good submission and in good order with your elders, it's profitable for you. And so that principle of building him up a little bit again, we're not saying that he needs accolades and it goes over the top or anything. But we are saying that, hey, a nice job goes a long way or hey, I've been thinking about you or praying for you goes a long way and it helps build up your shepherd to keep on shepherding. Well, one of the things I always encourage people at our Church to do is to pray for me and to sweeten it, to incentivize them, I say, you know, a prayer for the preacher is a prayer for yourself.

Your prayers are going to be answered on Sunday. And if you haven't prayed, if for no other reason than self-interest, bare self-interest, pray for me. It's like being married. He who loves his wife loves himself. Right.

And you know, when pastors get phone calls, it's very rarely, it's like a doctor almost, it's very rarely, hey, I was just thinking about you, you did such a great job. It's normally, you know, so-and-so's sick or someone so-and-so's in the hospital or have a problem with this or a problem with that. And so do you have to almost be that that's the natural flow of ministry you almost have to be intentional to be encouraging to the pastor. You know, there's the matter of sensitivity. It can be really, really hard on a pastor if he's overly sensitive, if he's overly subject to the opinions of men.

Men who are overly sensitive might ought to think give a second thought about going into the ministry because there are so many disappointments and you you can't rise and fall on the praises of men or it just you'll be in the tank all the time in depression but at the same time every man every man is susceptible to emotional ups and downs every man is some are more susceptible than others and some have thicker skin than others I think it's better to have thicker skin than thinner skin if you're going to be a pastor. That's probably true for your own survival, but at the same time, if you're a member in a church, how thick skin do you want your pastor to be? How much past tenderness and sensitivity do you want him to be? Not very much. You want a tender, sensitive man.

Yeah, and you want a happy man. You don't want a man who's down all the time. When pastors get depressed, They're just not as effective, not as helpful, not as encouraging. People need encouragement in the church. And so the kind of guy that that becomes a minister, becomes a shepherd by the grace of God is going to be that person that's really interested in the truth of God and the Lord's Word and really loves people.

So you're going to have a little bit of that thick skin going in. But I tell you what, just just a smummy. He didn't need much, but hey, I was just been thinking about your praying for you. Just really glad to be here serving our Lord with you. Just � A pastor is weak around amen so here's another one he is greatly energized by unity and greatly �n.

Yeah, every pastor listening this just said amen. There's a unison. Exactly. I mean, of course, you know, there's never going to be uniformity, right? There's, you know, there's so many different personalities and people are at different places in their walk with the Lord and people catch things differently and at different times.

And so we kind of get that. But just a general posture of hey we're kind of all in this together you know this is the local church where the Lord has planted me and I want to be fruitful here and I'm with you guys and I'm with the body and we're not talking about some kind of you know again sinful loyalty to a man as much as we are just the spirit of Christ the mind of Christ within the body and when that's present oh boy it's just wind in your sails you quoted Philippians 2 1 through 3 fulfill my joy that you be like-minded having the same love being in one accord of one mind Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory. But in lowliness of mind, let each esteem other better than themselves. If you go to college and you take a basic economics class, the first thing they teach you is about opportunity costs. What's opportunity cost?

It's just the notion that you can only spend a dollar one time. Once you've spent the dollar, it's gone, and you can't spend it on anything else in the universe. � the same is true with your pastor's time and energies. The more you force him to spend fighting relational fires on disunity, the less he's building up the flock, the less he's pushing for the borders of the kingdom of heaven. And every pastor knows how time-consuming disunity can be and how many people it can involve and really how disheartening it is.

It has to be dealt with but it's disheartening. Yeah the truth is disunity in the church can be debilitating to the pastor. I mean, you can, you get a sense of why Paul said what he said or why Elijah felt the way that he felt. And again, that stat that you mentioned Scott, in terms of pastors wanting to leave, you know, a lot of that's money, but I'll tell you what it's really difficult to lead and to shepherd and to love people when there's fighting going on. Yeah, and I think you know, you.

You wonder if it's all worth it? When things like that happen? It is worth it, but you wonder if it is worth it and that that Satanic line comes into your mind, it is a Satanic line. I don't need this. Well, actually, you did need it, you know, because God ordained it.

Honestly, brothers, there's a much more subtle version of that, which is, am I the right man? Absolutely. Am I the right man for this? It's not so much as a wiping the dust off of your feet but are people really making progress under the things that I'm trying to do and if not what does that say about my leadership in this church? Right.

A Lot of soul searching happens when there's this unity in the church. Yeah. So here's another one. He often sees more than you. This is part of the duty and calling of a shepherd to watch.

Trust is required. And you were quoting Acts chapter 20 where the Apostle Paul is exhorting the Ephesian elders in Myletis where they were meeting to be on guard, because wolves are around. Amen. It's one of our most important duties to to watch the flock. � to make sure to guard them against false teaching and false teachers.

But I found that of all the things that I do, this one is perhaps one of the most challenging. It's, you know, it can be hard to, you know, for people to acknowledge that maybe he sees something I don't see. And then it could be difficult to not sound paranoid or of course we see so many instances where people use this principle, use this part of shepherding to be controlling and so forth. But it's still needed and we often do. You see that young couple and they've heard this and you pick it up and you go, where'd you get that from?

It could affect your marriage and what do you do? You pray of course, do you talk, do you say something, Do you pull them in? It could be it could be hard to do this well. Yeah, I think the the prospect of wolves among the flock the correlation is you know what how how would you respond if you knew there was a sexual predator near your children you would you would take action or or your wife and that's how pastors think about the church they think about the philosophies they think about the popular trends they think about the popular voices and they're always asking is there a wolf there and often there is and it scares you the the the sheep aren't scared but you're scared because you see the wolf out there. But I think at this point he often sees more than you, he thinks differently than you do.

And you don't, you desperately don't want God's people to think that you're overly intrusive or trying to control their lives or you know have some kind of messiah complex or you're the only one that knows them you know so you're battling with some of those those things too even as you're attempting to do your duty yeah Sometimes you have to name names and communicate philosophies that are harmful. Here's another one. This is kind of related to the last one. He will say something eventually you don't like. How you respond is very important to the life of the church.

Choose wisely when he says something you don't like. And of course when I was writing that, I didn't mean that he was sinful, right? I didn't mean that he uttered something blasphemous or he was trapped in pride or anything. But even doctrinally, even just teaching the word, at some point, if you're in a good church, you're going to encounter something you haven't encountered before and you may not even like what you hear, even if it's rightly exegete, what do you do? Hopefully you take a humble road and a loving road and a prayerful road.

Or even if he said something that he shouldn't have said or in a way that he shouldn't have said it. These are not perfect men at the head of churches. And so in the same way that pastors need to have a spirit of grace towards the people that they're serving, the people that they're serving need to have a spirit of grace towards him too because you see a lot of him. You interact with him a lot and even if his percentages are good that means that occasionally he's gonna say something he shouldn't say or in a way that he shouldn't say it. There's this routine that happens with Debra and I on the way home from church almost every Sunday.

Hey Deb, did you like the message? She always says, I loved it. And then I'll wait. Because she's always so kind. No, she's really very kind to me.

But she'll say, did you realize that you said this? Or did you know, Scott, you should have said this differently. You could have been a little bit more gentle, you know, you, you know, consider stop using this line, you know, but hey, I'm really grateful. I'm really grateful for her. For her input, because they really, they really are wounds of a friend, my best friend.

So I'm really happy to hear that from her. But the truth is, you say things that you wish you hadn't said, you wish you'd said them differently, and you don't get to take them back. And sometimes people will punish you with those things forever. And so I would encourage anybody as a member of a church, you have good preachers, good pastors, good elders. One of the best techniques I've found is just ask a clarifying question.

Yeah. You know, hey, hey, hey, pastor, you know, appreciate that sermon and the preparation. Hey, when you said this, did you mean bop bop bop? And then so he gets a bit of a do over there if he communicated something, you know, inappropriately or maybe said it in a tone that wasn't intended. That's really helpful when people �hihihihi.

That's really helpful when people do that and I and when that happens, I wish it happened more but when it happens I always end up learning something. I really do. It's helpful to me to hear that perspective. So here's another one. He is sometimes concerned about how the trials of ministry will impact his family.

Oh take care of them. Oh my so what's that all about? Yeah that's well I mean just you know the standard stuff that we that we know about you know how much is he getting paid is it enough to take care of the family and have a decent standard of living? But in my 25 years, my biggest struggles here have been when we've had times of disunity or we had beloved people that my children really loved or my wife really loved leave the church and then my children are left with what happened. You know, that is just, I just wouldn't wish those times on anyone.

They're just so hard. It takes a toll. And every church people come and go, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

In many ways it's easier to be the pastor than to be the pastor's wife or the pastor's kids, because we always have recourse. We can always at least have a say in things, but they're not really in that boat. Right, right. And often they're left with the fallout. Yeah, and I've met, you know, young people who have gotten jaded about the church because of things that happened to their parents when their father was a pastor.

But a father and a mother have to help their children navigate those things as well. I think that's where the greatest responsibility is because church life has its troubles. The most important thing is how are the parents shepherding the children through that but it can be really hard on a family. It can be so disappointing to children especially. Especially if they see their father attacked or if they you know lose their dearest friend you know because of some conflict.

And then here's the last one I'd like for us to deal with today. He's a target of the devil. Pray for him. 1st Timothy 3.7. Amen.

Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just an effective war time strategy to cut the head off, right, to take out the leader. And, you know, Satan prowls around seeking whom he may devour. And I've always believed that pastors are at the top of that or that list if you can you know disrupt his communication or break his heart, or make him disillusioned, or what have you. And so pastors, Paul asked for prayer, you know, from the various churches, and pastors need prayer as well.

Amen. Well, okay, so we went through seven of your ten things. We're going to put a link to your message so they can get all ten and that'll be really great. But man, Carlton, thank you for doing this. I hope this is a tenderizing influence, a unifying influence, the growing of love between pastors and their congregations for those who hear it.

I hope it's also an encouragement to pastors to realize they're doing a good work to preach the Word of God is a very important work in the world. The devil does hate it. He hates the Word of God. And so you're doing something, you know, that has a diabolical influence, because you're doing something that's going to be the same everyday in the world. � a good word and so don't give up and don't give up in the dark hour the sun will come out again so hey thanks guys appreciate the conversation And thanks for joining us on the Church and Family Life podcast.

Hope to see you next Monday. And don't forget to click on Carleton's message to hear the whole thing from the horse's mouth. Thanks for listening to the Church and Family Life podcast. We have thousands of resources on our website, announcements of conferences coming up. Hope you can join us.

Go to www.churchandfamilylife.com. See you next Monday for our next broadcast of the Church & Family Life podcast.