When a child hits 18, it’s time for them to leave home and make their own way—to sink or swim. That’s the default view in our day, but is it biblical?      Join Scott Brown and Jason Dohm, along with special guest Steve Walker, as they take a fresh look at the question of a son or daughter leaving their parents’ home before marriage. In considering this matter, a trap we must avoid is the world’s narrative of self-glory and selfish independence. We must instead consider foundational principles of manhood and womanhood, as well as family and work life. We must ask: Would such a move promote greater holiness and spiritual growth—or less? And where a daughter is concerned, how would she be under meaningful protection, with this move? In all this, right hearts and motives must govern: Fathers should “not provoke [their] children to wrath,” (Eph. 6:4), even as their grown children should “honor [their] father and mother” (Eph. 6:2).

Welcome to the Church and Family Life podcast. Church and Family Life exists to proclaim the sufficiency of Scripture, and today we're going to talk about a thorny subject, a difficult subject and that is when you have an adult child who wants to leave the home before marriage and we're going to talk about different conditions that might be driving that. So Jason, we have Steve Walker with us. Outstanding. Hi Steve.

Hey Jason, nice guy. You know, he looks like he's close, but he's actually in California. So pray for me. Yeah, exactly. Well, I grew up there, so I kind of know what you're talking about.

But so you're the pastor of Central Valley Presbyterian Church in Ceres, California. We've worked together. I'm just so thankful for you. We've done marriage things together, fatherhood things, and I've just always been so delighted to co-labor, it's been a blessing. Same here.

Okay, so let's let's take off on this thing. So we want to we want to talk about general principles. We want to get down to specifics. But maybe we should just start with sort of foundational principles about family life, foundational principles about work life, manhood and womanhood. We could talk about, well, when can a child leave the home?

But maybe it's better to just talk generally, principally, about what the Scriptures speak to the design of a family and the design of an individual. So what are some of the fundamental things that should be said in order first? So I think maybe a decent place to start is Ephesians chapter 6, because I think we get a couple of important guiding principles. Here's Ephesians chapter 6, 1 through 4, well known but really useful here. Children obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.

Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth. And you fathers do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord." the parallel text in Colossians 3 instead of saying, don't provoke your children to wrath. It says, fathers, do not provoke your children lest they become discouraged. So I think it's helpful to start with these two guiding principles. As the circumstances and the discussions unfold, children have a lifelong duty to honor their father and mother.

So however this goes down, it needs to go down in a way that honors father and mother, and at the same time, parents and especially fathers need to be careful not to provoke their children to anger, lest they become discouraged. Why do we have commands for these things? Because there is a normal inclination for dishonor in the heart of the child and a normal inclination to be provoking to parents and sometimes especially fathers. So this sort of centers us on two things that we absolutely need to be looking out for as we sort of embark on this consideration. And it's upon those two things that this, that children and parents go off the rails on those two.

Steve, what are your thoughts? Yeah, no, I would just add, you know, Jason, what you're describing is not only the start of life that those early seasons as a child in the home, but you're saying that there's always a position which we need to honor our parents, and I agree with that. I think if we move on to, say, time of marriage, like in Titus 2, and what the older women are to be encouraging the younger women and older men to encourage the younger men, these relational principles, these investment back into the family, back into the community in order that God's name might not be blasphemed among the Gentiles. And then even, let's say we go to the end of life, maybe in 1 Timothy 5, 10, where the list of widows and what made a widow worthy of being supported by the church. And you see that she's at this age, advanced age, but she has her entire life been devoted to.

And there's a list of things that Paul gives. And you look at what was this godly woman devoting herself to. And you see it's the service, again, of the community of God, the household of faith, her own family, those are strangers and hospitality and so on. And the way I look at it is, you know, especially as we talk about this subject of adult children and some of the problems maybe that surround themselves, some of the things that we've seen in terms of abuses, either from authority or from rebellion in return. I think a lot of these problems surface because we have lost a sense of not only the honoring aspect, but also what are we called to do as men and women?

What is what has God set us in this world to do? Paul as he was talking to the church, he He said, you know, I've been debating in my mind whether it's better to go and depart and be with the Lord or not. And he says, I would prefer to be with the Lord, just like we all would prefer to start eternity right now in the presence of God forever. But he says, it's more needful that I remain for you. And so he casts really his entire life and ministry earthly work as being others oriented, as being spilled out and poured out for others.

And so I would just call us back to that fundamental principle when we're talking about our adult children is, what is it that we are, what is our identity as sons and daughters of the king here on earth to pour our lives out for others, to promote the kingdom of God, to build the home, to build the community of the church, and cast that as our foundation first So that as we look at some of the problems that surface, we can go, well, that's because we lost sight of this or we lost sight of that aspect of this vision. Right. And so you have, you know, the doctrine of the family has been pushed aside, you know, in recent times for sure. And so it's often difficult to work through those questions about what is the proper functionality of a family? What is the proper role and functionality of a woman in contrast to a man, and what are the differences?

My view has always been that God has created an environment, particularly for women, to be under the protection of a head. And of course, that begins in the home. God commands fathers to take care of their children, to bring them up, to protect them, to teach them. So there's this protective realm called the family. And then when that girl gets married, there's another protective realm.

She marries a husband who nourishes her and cherishes her, and he gives his life, and he's a protective entity. And then you talked about widows. When she loses her husband, the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ becomes another protective entity for her. So when it comes to women, I'd rather see an unbroken, protective institution, a loving institution, to care for whether it's her father or whether it's her husband or whether it's the church. And you know, I think there's an illustration of this in the Gospel of John, where the Lord Jesus is on the cross, he's coming to the end, he's getting ready to breathe his last, and he turns to his mother, and he turns to John, and he places his mother under the care of the apostle John.

You know, we're not told everything about that, but what's really clear is that he is now charged to take care of her in her son's absence. So I've always encouraged women particularly and fathers to recognize it's really important that a daughter is always protected. So whatever leaving home might look like, there has to be this consideration in the mix of the discussion. Well, and I would add to that, Scott, just going back to what I was saying earlier, that when we begin to go down the path of asking questions like, can I get a job? Can I go pursue a college degree?

Can I live on the other side of the country from my parents and so on? Not only Are we talking about maintaining that perspective that you're describing, but also retaining this sense of identity and ultimate vision and calling for investing back into one's home, one's community of faith, and so on. I think so many of our problems today are because we, and I'm not just talking about our young adults, but we across the board are buying into the world's narrative of independence, autonomy, self-fulfillment, self-glorification, and it all ultimately leads to destruction. One of the reasons why I think we see such a multi-generational flavoring in the Bible where actually we have adult children, male and female, often living in their father's homes into well into adulthood, often with their own families, right, is because this is so important to keep intact. I think it's, there's Nancy Wolgemuth who makes the comment that Jesus tells the disciples in the upper room that I go to prepare a place for you and in my father's house there are many rooms.

He doesn't say in my father's country there are many mansions. And yet, how have we American Westerners reinterpreted that? We talk about having our own mansion or our own house. And the context, partly the cultural context, but also that flavoring, right, is in my father's house, I'm going to have a room. And we just, I think we lose, we've lost sight of that in Western culture.

I think one of the dynamics in play is the objective of parents. What are we trying to do? Well, we're not trying to keep our children immature. It's our job to help them reach maturity, pull them up to maturity. Well, if they're 20, then 25, then 28, then 30, and you've done your job, you have brought them to maturity, they actually can think for themselves.

You wanted them to be able to think for themselves. They actually do own their faith. You wanted them to own their faith, then what? I think it's easy to answer when our children get married at 20, 22, but when they age beyond that, it gets a little murkier exactly how that horsepower in a person that's been brought to maturity ought to be harnessed for good things. And does that always and only happen under my roof?

Yeah. And there's sort of an angle on this, Jason, what do you say to the parents whose roadmap is, my daughter's gonna turn 21 and she's leaving. She needs to go out on her own, and kind of grow up and become independent. How would you respond to a father? I've had discussions like this with fathers.

I see you both turning. The camera direction this way. Again, I think that reiterates what I was saying a moment ago about the world's narrative of failure to launch. You fail to go out and become your own person and determine your identity. Well, I've always told our children and by extension everyone that I've talked to when it comes to authority, we're always under authority.

We're fundamentally and at least minimally under God's authority and all other authority is derived from that and is representing that authority in our life. But the goal of life is not to go throw off all authority, become autonomous, and become our own person, discover ourselves. God has really given us a purpose and a calling for men and women. There is a difference that's complementary. It gives glory to God in that regard.

And I think as parents, one of the things that we are really called to do is be careful about what we are about in the home. We are not just about maintaining that endless routine of eat, work, and sleep, right? We are about building the kingdom of God. We are about teaching our children about developing these biblical worldviews, about loving God with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength, about investing their lives in others. And I think when we see this organically developing, When we see a mother and a father that are submitted to God, passionate about serving Christ, loving their children, loving the church, what we see is this healthy dynamic that grows and is replicated in their children.

And so the issue is not, I need to go push my child out so that they go grow up. The fact is they've been growing up the whole time into a mature worldview of God and their role in this world. And we've got a war to fight. And there's got to be this sense that our children are fighting alongside of us in for Christ and for King Jesus. So whether you're in the home or out of the home, you know, the agenda is the same.

You don't leave the home and then now you jettison the agenda. And the question is, can you just stay and keep doing it in your home? Is there anything wrong with that? No, in fact, unfortunately, I think one of the side effects of modern culture and feminism and so on is that the home has become such a, oftentimes a depressing, negative, minimalist thing, right? Whereas when God describes in Titus 2 women as being keepers of the home, they are keepers of what once was considered the cradle of civilization, what once was considered the most powerful institution next to the church on earth, which was the home.

And, you know, half of our population, all of our women as being managers and stewards of that grace and that instrument of God's powerful work, we've gotta rethink and help our children, our next generations rethink about what's going on in the home and how wonderful it is to be a part of investing back into the home. You know, I think all of us would say that it's either ideal or most ideal that a child would stay in the home until they get married. But let's talk about Why we would even think that way? Why would it be more, maybe not absolutely ideal, but why would it be more ideal? Well, You can start here.

It's tremendously financially advantageous. When you first leave the home, you find out how hard it is to save money. Most of us don't really achieve the ability to save a lot of money till we're at a higher income level. That's when you're older. That's when you've been in that profession for a while.

When you first embark on a career, your expenses gobble up most of what's there. When you're at home, it changes the financial fundamentals a lot. You know, I was talking to a father the other day and he was saying, my son's leaving home when he's 18, he's gonna go make his way. I said, well, I said, well, what if he stayed home and in five years he had $50,000 in his pocket. Would that be meaningful?

Would that be helpful? Would that be empowering? You know, and I was trying to argue the point, there are real life financial reasons to stay home. That was the argument I was making. Well, I would add that one advantage is not that the parents are going to have perpetual children in the home who continue to just be workers.

And so it's an advantage to the parents. I think what we want to see instead is if you've got biblical models in the parents, they're continuing to be investing in their now adult children. Their adult children are helping contribute in a meaningful way, not just as add-ons to mom, but in a contribute in a meaningful way to the home, to the community. We see the Proverbs 31 woman adding and contributing to the family's earnings and the family enterprise. We see so many amazing things that men and women can do and why not in the home?

You know like you say there's a financial benefit. I add there's a spiritual benefit. You've mentioned earlier, Scott, the protection of our women. I'm sure we could come up with many, many more. But I think the key for us is that parents have to pivot.

They have to pivotal at this point in their adult children's lives and not just continually to treat them as perpetual young children in the home. Right, right. I think that there are, there are liabilities, I'm going to maybe just call them emotional liabilities if you're living by yourself and you're coming home and there's no one there. It's more difficult. I remember when I first got married, I was so relieved to be able to come home to a wife.

I had come home to no one. And Your mind just has time to sink, sink into discouraging thoughts. And I felt like it's really a blessing to walk in the door and someone's there. Well, if you're living on your own, or maybe you're living with a roommate. But if you're living with a roommate, schedules don't always correspond.

It's just the reality. It's not the same thing as coming home to a family where dinner is being put on the table and there's cohesion and things like that. It's different. I think there's at least an emotional liability for living by yourself, particularly for a woman. Yeah, and I, you know, Scott, I would say We certainly have examples in scripture of people, whether it's women or men, that lived outside of the parents' home, right?

You've got Ruth and Naomi, for example. It's possible that Lydia was on her own. You have situations where a father dies like the daughters of Zalophahad and so on. There are examples and I think the principles are still going to apply. Oftentimes you might have an Esther under a cousin Mordecai, right?

Or you might have the daughters, as we've had coming to Moses and really the church, looking for help and advice. So you even have Naomi encouraging Ruth, you know, towards marriage. There are situations in which men and women, of course, live on their own. But I think when we're talking about the ideal and the advantages of being still a part of that multi-generational family structure. I think they far are outweighing, let's say, any advantages ultimately that's living apart.

And we have to ask, why are we, so we can, but is that best? Right, so sometimes when we talk about, this is what I can do, one legitimate question is, why do I want to do this? Why, What is promoting me? And if there's a good biblical reason for it and you're able to pursue still the ideal of that covenantal interrelating that we've been talking about this whole time, then okay. But if it's just to further the world's narrative, that's going to probably send you down a bad road.

I think some advice I would like to give both to parents and both to adult children who are thinking through this right now is to stay out of the mode as long as you possibly can where you're simply making announcements and delivering ultimatums. That's bad from either end of this conversation. Just simply announcing and making an ultimatum really shuts things down and backs the other party, paints them into a corner where they don't have a lot of options left. I have an adult child who wanted to move out not because there was conflict in the home but for a number of reasons. And I'm very thankful.

He didn't make an announcement and he didn't deliver an ultimatum. He said, you know, dad, I'm thinking about it. Here's the way I'm thinking about it. How are you thinking about it? Would you object to that?

And we just, we had an opportunity without the pressure of an ultimatum to work through the issues together. And ultimately he did choose to move out of our home, but in a way that was acceptable to me so that he really did it with the blessing of his mother and I. What time does, what giving it time does, is that it allows the parents to ask themselves, are they exasperating? Are they discouraging their children? That discussion could help them understand maybe their home environment could be improved.

On the other hand, it could help the child understand whether there's actually rebellion that's driving it. I just want to go, I want to get out from under my parents authority. I'm sick and tired of this authority. So if both parties are patient and try to talk things through, then there's probably an opportunity for some healing to take place if you have a rebellious child or an exasperating parent. And I would just say that a good measure of whether we've been doing things well as a parent with our adult children is if our parenting continues to be the same when they leave our home as when they were in our home as adult children.

And what I mean by that is, you know, we still have a role to play in terms of that next generation up, the respect and honoring that our children have for us as let's say fathers, the role that we play in our daughter's lives, et cetera. If we have been abusing that and treating our children just as children in the home and then they leave and that changes dramatically how we relate to them, that's suggesting we were treating them, we were not parenting well while they were there. So there should be, whether they're in our home or outside of our home as adult children, there should be a consistency in the same type of purposeful investing in them and honoring in return. And I would encourage two things to happen. On the side of the children, I would want to know, is there any rebellion in this?

Is this a move that promotes holiness? Is it a move that promotes spiritual growth? Does it have the elements in place that really cause the flourishing of the soul? Who would you be living with? Where would you be living?

What would your schedule be like? The child, the adult child has to ask those questions and be honest about that. Is the child wanting to move out under the guise of just wanting to get away from holy living, which in the parents' home there is a sense of holy living. There is constraint. Hey, the people that we're with are a constraint upon us, and That's actually in most cases a really good thing.

Every policeman knows that there's a lot more good behavior when you see the police car. We have an effect on one another and that actually is a good thing. On the other hand, the parents have to ask, am I sinning against my children? Am I unrighteously withholding freedom? Or even more, am I providing a home environment that really constrains their creativity, their contribution, their growth?

Am I constraining in my home the progress of that child in learning how to work and learning how to be involved in this world? If you have children who are just sequestered, locked down kind of in their homes, how healthy is that? Parents have to ask, am I providing a healthy environment? Have I put the railroad tracks of productivity for this child. So I think both parents and children have to ask some hard questions.

Yeah, and it ultimately circles back to how we started, right? It circles back to what we are called to do, what a family looks like, how do we build the kingdom of God together? Amen. Any final shots, Jason, on that? None for me.

Okay. Okay, well, hey, we've solved all these problems. Of course. We've only just opened the door because the parent naturally is going to ask, well, how do I fix where I've gone right now? I'm in the middle of life with teen children.

I've not been doing this at all. Is there a time to recover? What do I do as a parent with a child who's outside my home now and I haven't been having this help? How do I recover some of that? So maybe those are future talks.

We'll have to have you back, Steve. We'd be delighted. Start preparing. Start preparing, that's right. We'll flip the questions over to you when they come.

How about that? Well, it's been a pleasure to be with you two today. Always good to serve with you, Scott, and hope to See you sometime soon, Jason. Thank you. Thank you, brother.

And thank you. Thank you for joining us on the Church and Family Life podcast. Hope to see you next time, and I hope to see you at our national conference, May 4 through 6. And if you're single, our singles conference, May 3 and 4, Here coming up soon. I just can't wait to experience the chief end of man.

That's the name of the conference. See you next time. Thanks for listening to the Church and Family Life podcast. We have thousands of resources on our website, announcements of conferences coming up. Hope you can join us.

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