Christian joy is not subject to how good or bad our situation is. God gives joy to His people in hard times as well as in seasons of ease and plenty. Jesus modeled this on His way to the cross, declaring the joy He had in obeying His Father as He abided in His love (John 15:9-11).

In this podcast Scott Brown and Jason Dohm, joined by special guest John Snyder, discuss finding joy in the Christian life, looking to Jesus as the ultimate example. During His earthly ministry, Christ was the happiest of men, being “anointed . . . with the oil of gladness more than [His] companions” (Heb. 1:9). Jesus lived in the awareness of his Father’s love for Him which brought Christ unceasing joy. As believers enveloped in this same love, we should reject despondency in our souls and be a joyful people, no matter our circumstances, for “Happy are the people whose God is the LORD!” (Ps. 144:15).

Welcome to the Church and Family Life podcast. Church and Family Life exists to proclaim the sufficiency of Scripture. And today, hey Jason, we have John Snyder with us. How about that? That's always a pleasure.

It's always a pleasure. So John Snyder is a pastor at Christ Church in New Albany, Mississippi, a good friend. And you know, I wanted to do something, John, on Hebrews 1-9, and I kept thinking, who can really talk about this? Who would I love to engage in this? Your name came up right away.

I'm not exactly sure, but I think that you've thought about this. We've had discussions that kind of surround this from time to time, I think, over the years. But we're here to talk about the joy of Jesus Christ. And I wanna base our discussion on Hebrews 1-9. I'll just read it.

Therefore You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. Therefore, God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than your companions. And This verse has gripped me for many, many years to think that Jesus Christ, our Lord, He was the happiest of all the disciples. He carried life in such a beautiful way. And we have different pictures of Jesus.

You don't, you know, the pictures that people paint and that type of thing, you know, do they really capture this? Well, nobody could capture the true happiness of Jesus Christ in an image, which brings us to the second commandment. But here we have this statement that Jesus Christ was happier than all the disciples. So, John, how do you explain this? Yeah, Scott.

I think that when we consider that topic of joy and when we think of the context that we're in as American evangelicals in particular and the amount of sorrow that we see among people in church, the temptation that we would naturally feel when carrying burdens as ministers to maybe become gloomy. I think it can be a very confusing piece of ground to kind of navigate. On one side we have, you know, this kind of joy-centered Christianity, maybe an abuse of John Piper's emphasis, and where joy becomes the thing. And then on the other side, we have kind of this gloomy reformed, and I don't mean that the reformed churches are always gloomy, but you know, it can become kind of you see the sorrows in the world because of sin and you think that the appropriate response is to be constantly grumpy. So how do we steer between those?

And it seems to me that the only safe place is always the same and that is how do I follow the Lord Jesus in this and can he disciple me from his throne through his word and the Spirit can he teach me to follow him in his joy and you mentioned that wonderful passage in Hebrews which is quoting Psalm 45 And then there's also a wonderful passage in John 15 where in verse 10 Christ turns to his disciples and he says My joy I give to you and I'm giving this to you. So your joy could be full So the question that comes to our mind is, what kind of joy did he have if he's giving us his joy, and how exactly do we walk a path with him so that we might actually experience that? You know, and part of this, he says, I delight to do thy will. There was a particular delight in his obedience and that kind of, I think, takes us to Hebrews 1.9. He says, you have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, therefore, in other words, he loved to do his father's will.

And it was in doing his father's will that brought him the greatest happiness. Yes, and I forgot to mention a little book that you and I both have, and it's a book that the church here has gone through a couple of times. I actually came across it back in 1990s when in the little country of Wales. It's a book by a Scottish theologian in the late 19th century and it's called Glimpses of the Inner Life of Our Lord by William Blakey. And this particular edition also has another small book called The Emotions of Jesus by Robert Law.

And both of them have a chapter on the joy of Christ, and I think that they both bring something that's very helpful. Blakey gives just, I think, four simple points on what the source of joy was for Christ, and that's pretty significant for us if we're to have the same type of joy that he has. We're going to have to, it's, you know, it's not just that he's giving us joy, he's giving us his kind of joy. So we're going to have to understand that. And I suppose that it's a bit shocking for us to think that when he turns to his disciples in John 15, the night that he's going to go to Gethsemane and then he's going to be arrested, that when he tells them he's going to give them his joy, Blakey points out that nobody interrupts him.

In John 13, 14, 15, and 16, in those wonderful last night lessons that they need to have, he is occasionally interrupted. He's interrupted in chapter 15 verse 4 and 5 in the Gospel of John, or I'm sorry chapter 14 verse 4 and 5, when he says that he's going to go away but they know where he's going and they immediately interrupt him and say we don't know where you're going. Later in verse 22 and 23 and he says that he's going to reveal himself to them but not to the world and immediately they interrupt him and say how is it that that's going to be your plan but when he comes to chapter 15 and says my joy I'm giving you nobody interrupts him and says what joy we see that you're a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief we don't know what joy you're referring to So obviously it implies that the disciples are very clear. They know that He is the most joyful, as you mentioned, the most deeply spiritually content and happy man they have ever met. And that's quite shocking to us.

You know, to become like Christ, I think we can conclude, is to become a happy man or a happy woman. And I think That's why there are so many commands to rejoice. There are, I think, over 100 times the greatest, the most often repeated command in the Bible is do not fear. That has to do with emotions that cause heaviness and cause us to lose our joy. But God wants to wage war against despondency in our souls and to make us a happy people.

Happy is that people whose God is the Lord. John and Scott, one of the things I appreciate about Scripture so much is that while it's pointing us to joy and leading us into joy, it also is not denying hardships in any way. And I think that's perfectly reflected in what James says in James chapter 1, verses 2 through 4. Let me just read it. My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.

But let patience have its perfect work that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing." So again, there's actually an acknowledgement of the trials. There's no denial that we face trials, hardships, challenges in this world. But the Bible actually gives us a framework that God is working, God is actually sending the trials, working in the trials to produce things that we need in our lives. And it kind of sets us on the rock of joy as we look at the trials, knowing that they come from the hand of God. Yeah, and in Christ's humanity, he expresses lots of different emotions.

You know, He openly wept in John 13, 5. He had pity, he had sorrow and compassion for people like in Mark 3, verse 5. He was in distress in Mark 1, 41 and in Matthew 20, 34. He experienced misery in Mark 6 34. He shed tears in the face of suffering in Mark 7 34.

He wept over Jerusalem saying, oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem. He had lots of emotions, even the rich young ruler who did not want to follow him. There's this amazing phrase in Mark 10 21 that he had a love for him. You know these are all, this is all part of the inner life of our Lord Jesus Christ. And yet, and perhaps maybe the the pinnacle or the the summary of all of all of his feelings was joy.

He was able, and I think that's what you just read, Jason. We can rejoice in trials. We can have joy in trials. That's sort of the strange thing about the Christian life. Blakey points out four things that were the source of Christ's joy and I think they really dovetail well with what you both just said Because the four things he mentions are all four things that can Exist even in the more difficult times of the Christian life even in the difficult talks that we have, you know, with loved ones in our family or with a brother or sister in church, whether we're, you know, just reaching out as a Christian, as part of a living body or whether we're reaching out as a pastor.

I'll give you his list and maybe that'll help. He mentions four things that were the source of Christ's joy and the first was that Jesus lived in the awareness of his father's love for him And that's the context of the John 15 10 verse. Verse 9, he says, in the same way that the father has loved me, I'm now loving you. And he tells them to walk in that love. And they will walk in the awareness of that love if they will walk obediently as He walked obediently and enjoyed that love.

And so there's just so much there that's important but one of the things that we need to think about there is that we can live in the awareness of God's love no matter how difficult the Christian life is at the moment. And the word love there, I think theologically or contextually, it's not a special Greek word, but the context is significant because we tend to think of the love of God for us as perhaps having at its core pity and compassion and mercy and forgiveness and grace. And those are all wonderful things, but that is not how the Son was loved. He was not loved with a forgiving mercy and grace. He wasn't loved with an undeserved love.

So that is what the old theologians called the love of complacency and that's the love a parent feels for a child. You know as we walk by their, or a grandchild, you know you walk by their bedroom at night and all the struggle of the day is gone and you know The little three-year-old is at sleep there and they look like an angel and you look at them and you know that they're imperfect But your heart is Satisfied it rests in its love upon them You're not demanding something from them at the moment for love the father Delighted was satisfied with the son and through the finished work of the son The Christian can live in the awareness of that, no matter what's happening. The others are kind of slow from that. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. Hey.

Yeah, go ahead. I wanna stop on this one here. This is so amazing. He talks about Jesus abiding in his Father's love, but then he says this, his soul was bathed in it in his Father's love. I love this language, as a water plant is bathed in the waters of its pool.

What a blessed source of joy this must have been. This really takes me back to even my own conversion. I was converted during what people call the Jesus movement. And whatever anybody might want to say about that. It was a real live revival.

All revivals have their problems, but one thing that was so prominent in that revival was, particularly from the preaching of Chuck Smith, was the love of God. He preached the love of God. And it was so compelling to so many of us to know that God's love was for us. Because we were a pretty battered generation, right? We were the drug generation, We were the rock and roll generation.

And we kind of felt the fangs of the devil. And there wasn't too much love and sympathy for the devil. But I just love this, as a water plant is bathed in the waters of its pool. Being bathed, and I can just recall just having a sense of being bathed in the love of God as we would sing together in our church and everything. It was the love of God is such a sweet thing.

Blakey also mentions that there was joy in the life of Christ as he actively loved others, and if you think about all the Christian duties, all the tasks that we have as individuals or as part of a family or part of a body of Christ, really we only have one job. It is love. To love God with all that we are and to love the person next to us as we love ourselves. And there is a joy that a Christian feels in doing the tasks that we have because it is an expression of love and all of us you know that have children and we think of how or people that we love, if you're doing something special for a loved one, for an elderly parent, for your wife, for a close friend, it's a joy to sacrifice and to labor because it's love. And I have found that even in the most difficult tasks as a dad or as a pastor, I have put my hand on the doorknob at times to walk into the room where I know I'm about to have a conversation that apart from a miracle it's going to be a very difficult conversation and I'm not as hopeful as I would like to be that it's going to turn out well and I just stop for a second and think what am I doing I am loving that soul and I'm loving my king.

And even though nothing else is pleasant about that, that is something that does bring me happiness. And, you know, of course, Scripture says he went to the cross for the joy that was set before him, despising the shame. Here's Blakey, the joy he had in looking forward to the fruit which his work was to bear in the life to come. You know, looking forward to the cleansed family, the fellowship for all eternity, looking forward to the fruit of his labor on the cross. Yeah, so none of those things are limited by the present circumstance of a believer if we will walk in sweet harmony with our God, drawing upon that love.

We can labor, we can live in that love, we can love others, we can do the task He's given us to do, and we can look forward to the ultimate completion of all the kingdom. You know, think of Romans 8, think of, think of, you know, those last chapters in Revelation, and when we see him face to face, to know that our life in some small way has been a part of that tapestry of love. And that will not be a small matter then that we did our tasks from love. And there's great joy in knowing that we have not wasted our time loving people, even if in the present moment it seems that it's not producing, you know, the result that we wish it would. I think that's such an important point and the distinction between the Merriam-Webster definition of joy and what Christian joy actually is.

Christian joy is not subject to being propped up by circumstances. It doesn't need to be propped up by circumstances. God sustains his people and gives joy to his people, sometimes actually more in difficult circumstances than in kind of times of ease and plenty. I'm sure we've all had the experience where you were much more near God and trials and hardships. You know when the martyrs go to the stake, a lot of times they're praising God.

You know, believers in their old age, in their deathbeds, they're praising God. You know, that's... God's joy is deeper than the moment. I think because it comes from God. So here's a question.

All three of us are pastors. And one of the things that we hope to do, try to do, need to do, is to encourage people towards joy. Sometimes I find that to be a struggle to do that without it sounding like turn the frown upside down. It's like, engage in the mind trick. Oh, look, it's a frown and now you turn it and now it's a smile.

See, it was a smile all along. And yeah, it can, our desire to encourage can come off as trite or superficial or a mind trick, and we're not trying to do that. Do you have any thoughts on how we can communicate that in a way that acknowledges real hardship but encourages people towards joy Well, I think the scripture as you mentioned with James 1 is so perfectly balanced You know when we give our one sentence statements it can come across as kind of a Christian cliche And you know and and there's always that fear that we've emphasized one side and neglected the other and so, you know, I tend to Say too much to a person and at the end of the 20-minute, you know monologue They just stare at you and think what were we talking about? You know, you said everything in the whole Bible. So I do think the scripture to send them back and you know, and John 15 is a wonderfully clear pattern.

There is deep sorrow in the life of the Messiah and yet He is free to think of others and to speak to them about their happiness and He lays a very practical path for that. And that, you know, those few verses, chapter 15, 9 through 11, in particular, meditated on, lived out. I think it's just so well balanced. I don't fear that anyone would kind of get off the path with that kind of a passage. You know Spurgeon, I recall reading a long time ago, he talked about believers with sour looks on their faces coming to church and he said, you know, Their faces are so long their chins would go all the way to the bottom of a vase.

And of course Spurgeon struggled with depression himself, but he really was always casting a vision for Christian joy. And Here's a line from Blakey's book maybe I'd like to close with. If the man of sorrows found refreshment from these fountains, Are they not fountains that we should prize and resort to? I do believe that the more we become like Jesus Christ, the happier we'll be, the more joy we'll experience. But it actually does, it comes from a cost, and it's loving righteousness and hating lawlessness.

I think that's why Jonathan Edwards used to say that holiness is happiness. Setting aside everything that hinders turning away from sin actually causes the soul to get happy. And John, we were talking earlier about George Mueller. Remember that great statement in his book about how he wanted to be before the orphans. Yes, you know, when you think of Mueller, I can imagine that that man was tempted to weigh, to let the weights of ministering to three and four hundred orphans be visible.

I feel that way with, you know, four kids. And so he did make that wonderful comment that his goal each morning in getting alone with the Lord in prayer and scripture was to get his heart happy in the Lord. And I think it was John Piper that I heard mention that first when he did a biography, the sketch of Mueller. And Mueller gave a reason for that. It wasn't just for his own personal happiness.

It was so that the children would never think by looking at him that the service of Christ was the service to a harsh master. And I remember reading Martin Lloyd-Jones later in his ministry, felt that he failed there, that he had failed to be happy in the Lord in the way he should have been and was determined, you know, in those in that last decade or so of his ministry, to be more careful to really, you know, to be determined to follow Christ in that way. You know, on that day the believer will hear, enter into the joy of your Lord. In Matthew 25, 21. Well, we might as well do it now.

We can do it now. We can enter into His joy. That's why Jesus said, you know, my joy, enter into my joy. So there you have it, the Lord Jesus Christ, the happiest of all the disciples. John, thank you so much for joining us.

It's always a blessing to talk to you. Yeah, great to see you guys again, and great to talk about a topic that's so encouraging, captivating and convicting at the same time. Yeah, Amen. Well, thank you for joining us on the Church and Family Life podcast. And I hope to see you next time.

Hope to see you at our conference and at the end of October, Build, Dwell, Plant, where we're gonna talk about everything family life. And then next year at Ridgecrest, our national conference, Making Disciples. We have a pre-conference for preaching and for pastoral care with Steve Lawson for an entire day on preaching and Alexander Strauch and Kevin Swanson and myself talking about pastoral care before the conference. Anyway, hope you can join us. Thanks for listening to our podcast.

You can find past episodes and many more resources by visiting our website at churchandfamilylife.com