You’ve heard the mantra—men, today, need “to get in touch with their feminine side.” But this is utter nonsense. In this podcast, hosts Scott Brown and Jason Dohm, joined by Carlton McLeod, declare the Scripture’s call for men to “act like men” and “be strong” (1 Cor. 16:13). This doesn’t mean that males are to show no emotion—as Jesus wept (John 11:35), and we’re all charged to be “tenderhearted” to one another (Eph. 4:32). But men aren’t to cow in fear and give way to their emotions. When storms come, they’re to guide their families with calm judgment and bravely lead. 

Thank you for joining us on the Church and Family Life podcast. Today we're going to talk about big boys don't cry. It's about gender distinctions. And I hope you can join us at our national conference next year, May 2026, Manhood and Womanhood, manhood and womanhood, the glory of God in the creation order. Hope you enjoy the discussion.

Jason, big boys don't cry. Well, we're going to explain what we mean by that. But this really is a subject that surrounds gender distinctions. Men are different than women. They are profoundly different in the way they think.

Not only are their bodies profoundly different, but men are different than women. And the calling for provision and protection doesn't allow for men to curl up into the fetal position when hard things are happening. I think that's really sort of the gist of what we're going to do is when hard things are happening, men stand up and fortify themselves and they don't curl up into the fetal position. Yeah, men are like ballast in a ship in a time of storm. That's how God made men.

That's why men can go to war. And well, That's why we have Carlton McLeod to talk about this with us. Yeah, Carlton, it's so great to see you. Good to see you, brothers. Happy to be here.

Thank you. Yeah. Well, everybody knows that men and women are different and women are more guided by their emotions, men are less likely. We know that there's a continuum there. God made men that way.

In marriage counseling, I will remind both of them that they're marrying somebody that's very, very different, and they need to rejoice in it because God made manhood and womanhood for His glory. The man might feel, might seem stoic and unfeeling. Well, that's because God made him that way so that everybody isn't collapsing in a pool of tears. And God made women for their tenderness, for their nurturing, for their respect. He made men and women differently.

And they so harmoniously compliment one another when they're filled with the Holy Spirit. Yeah, I don't think we want a world with all of one and none of the other. In either direction, honestly. Yeah. Yeah, you don't want hard-hearted men.

Yeah. We are commanded, both men and women are commanded to be tender-hearted toward one another. The apostles taught the men and the women in the church to be that way, to be kindly affectionate with one another in brotherly love, Romans 12, 10. So, you know, we're not making an argument against affection or tender heartedness. What we are saying, though, is God made men strong, stronger in some ways in order to provide stability for their family, for their church and for their nation.

We don't want men who are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, you know, just being pulled around by their emotions, you know, all the time. And very true. This is particularly important in the age of feminism and matriarchy, where many women have been taught and will subsequently ask their men to let them see their feminine side. There's a teaching that goes around, is that show me, with women, show me your emotions, I really wanna know how you feel. And then the flip side is they, many of them are repulsed by it if they actually do.

So, he cried, the phrase, with women is, ew, that phrase there, he cried. Well, you asked him to cry, but you didn't really want him to cry. Yeah, I think we have the modern phrase toxic masculinity. Sometimes what that means is men being toxic in ways that are reprehensible. And so, for that, we wholeheartedly agree with that.

Sometimes what is meant by toxic masculinity is masculinity. Masculinity. Like all forms of it are toxic and that simply isn't true and couldn't be more contrary to what the Bible teaches. Yeah. Absolutely.

Absolutely. I was reading a book the other day called by David Schrock called The Business of Ismus, the founders of industries published it. And the proposition of the book really is what is a family, what is a man, what is a woman. And in the book, he quotes another book by Anthony Esselin called No Apologies. And he says that, of course, civilizations depend on the strength of men.

And he says in that book that studying 1500 cultures, 1500 societies, all of them, all of them train boys to control their emotions because it's natural for them to do that. And men are designed for stability, and men are designed to stabilize society in that sense. You know, we were talking about a Bible phrase earlier. Most of us know it in the King James, quit ye like men, meaning act like men. Be strong.

The modern spirit of the age is trying to strip that of all meaning so that act like men actually doesn't mean anything, but at least people who grew up in the time when we were growing up know exactly what the Bible author was trying to communicate by saying, act like men. There's a way that men ought to act, and there's inappropriate behavior for men, and the same for women. And he has to act like a man because it's so connected to his duties, from taking dominion or managing a house to being a protector, to stabilizing the family economics, to providing, you know, godly discipline for the children or just a strong, stable base for his wife's emotions and things that she goes through. I mean, those are all those things that are connected to the duties of a man. So we act accordingly.

And you think about what God himself calls men to do, to protect, to provide, to lead, and to discipline. So, you know, God gave these functions specifically for men. He didn't call women primarily to provide and protect and lead. He called men to do that. And I just think that just points to the stabilizing influence of a male presence in the world.

You know, one of the funny things that's happened in my house over the years, with respect to raising our children, is I'll be at the church office and there's yelling and screaming and things going on here, and I'll get a call or I'll come home early as a result of. And my wife and I have often talked about the marked difference between her voice and her discipline and her commands and my voice and my discipline and my commands. I think most men who are married probably know what that's like. They just, children respond differently to Dad. So in Nehemiah chapter four, they're trying to rebuild the wall of Jerusalem, which had been broken down.

Nehemiah is leading, and the wolves are at the gate, figuratively speaking. The enemies, they're enemies. It looks like attack is imminent. And here's what we read in Nehemiah 4.14. Nehemiah says, do not be afraid of them.

Remember the Lord great and awesome and fight for your brethren, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your houses." So this is an address to the men of Israel when the wolves are at the gate. Don't be afraid, look to God, and fight for your wives, your sons, and daughters in your houses. And this is really, you could extrapolate that out a hundred ways, this is the calling of men, is to resist fear, look to God, and fight for the people that God has put in your care. In the Bible, men or women never go out to fight. It's always men.

In Deuteronomy 22, the men are not allowed to dress like women. They're supposed to dress like warriors. And you just have this very sharp distinction between the male and the female. And that's why you have these commands like, you know, quit you like men or, you know, conduct yourselves like men. Or conduct yourselves like men, you've got David challenging his son on the last day of his life to act like a man, to prove yourself to be a man, because men have a duty to function in the world and they really are protectors and providers.

The woman is not the provider, the woman is not the protector. You know, Scott, what you just said is absolutely true, but I mean, that's anathema in modern culture. Do you have any counsel for young fathers or perhaps even young pastors in their local churches to cultivate this mindset in men is so important. Well, I think the Bible is your guide. I think a father, a husband should sit down with his wife and walk through the scriptures and explain his role to her.

And if she gets really concerned about it, he should open up Ephesians 5. What kind of patriarchy are we talking about? What kind of headship are we talking about? We're talking about headship that nourishes and cherishes and washes with the Word. We're talking about a headship that lives with his wife in an understanding way.

So we're not talking about a person who's harsh, but we're talking about a person who's stable and he's stabilized by the Word of God and as a result, the Word of God is stabilizing his family. Scott, you were talking about premarital counseling that you do and how you address this in premarital counseling. Why is that? Because it's so destabilizing to a home when a man gives into his fear and to over emotionalism. And he's supposed to be the steadying influence, but instead he destabilizes it by capitulating to his fears.

I think one of the hardest things that my wife has faced with me, and thankfully doesn't happen very often, but if I come home discouraged, it is no help for me to be discouraged at all. And you know, fathers just have to recognize they have a role to play to lift the ships in the harbor and not to drag them down and sink them with his own anger, with his own resentment, his own disappointment. Whatever it might be, a man needs to repent of that. It's actually sinful to be anxious, right? There's a command, do not be anxious.

And so men have to really understand the influence that they have. They have a tremendous influence. And if they're not strong, their influence will be a weakening force in their family. I've seen some men struggle with the line between oversharing and being so stoic, their wives don't feel like they know them or that they're trusted by their husbands. Can you speak to that?

Wow, that's a great question. I think a man has to be- I'm just pulling on your senior experience. No, I think a man has to be really judicious. He can poison his wife. He can discourage his wife.

I knew a guy one time and I started doing this years ago. I haven't done it in a long time. But what he said is on his way home from work, he would have certain corners and he would drop people off, you know, figuratively. He would drop this enemy off. He's gone.

I dropped him off, you know, this problem. He's dropping this other problem off in the next corner. You know, he's dropping off his problem so that when he walks in the house, he's an inspiration machine. Yeah. We have to calm into this.

The reason why we're taking it up as a topic now is because the current of culture is rushing in exactly the opposite direction. So we want to tell fathers, you have to start setting this expectation in their little boys that when God... In the day that God gives them a household, they're supposed to be a steadying influence in their house, but they can be a tremendously destabilizing influence in their house. And a lot of it depends on just the thing that we're putting our finger on here. Church leaders need to call young men to it as they're getting married, and that's probably too late.

But you actually want this continuous exhortation from older men starting with dads and then graduating to church leaders in time. And we need to exhort each other to be a rock in our homes for the people that God has entrusted to our care. On the one hand, we tell men, okay, big boys don't cry, you need to be strong. And of course, God will help you. On the other hand, if we don't encourage what Jason said, accountability, friendships, brethren talking together, going to hit golf balls while you're working out the problems or something like that, then we leave them with very little recourse.

I can't share what I'm really going through with my wife. I can, I want to tell her the truth, but I can't overly emote? At the same time, I need some outlet, someone to help me at times. And I just appreciate what Jason said there. Yeah, hey, a lot of times a man needs his wife to encourage him.

My wife does it all the time. And basically her message to me is knock it off, get back in the game, okay? What good is this? She's a student of Katerina Vambora. That's exactly it.

I tell you what. No kidding. That's great. You know, we are in a war. We're in a spiritual war.

I think it's really interesting in the Old Testament, there are a number of places where the men are at war, but they're acting like women in war. Jeremiah 50 verse 37, and they will become like women in battle. In Jeremiah 51 verse 30, their might has failed, they became like women. Men should not become like women. Nahum 3.13, surely your people in your midst are women.

And they're just talking about the distinction that men should not be acting like women when they're in spiritual war. We're in spiritual war all the time. That's right. And I mean, a husband, a father needs to recognize that when he gets home from work, it should be showtime. It really should.

You know, he can go flop out on the couch and say, I'm so tired. That is despicable. A man should not do that. He should not be complaining about how tired he is or how hard it was at the office. This does not help your family to live victoriously and to be fearless.

I'm just looking again at the model of Nehemiah 4.14. Do not be afraid. Remember the Lord, great and awesome. Fight. What a helpful formula.

We need to just solidify ourselves against fear because so often it's sinful fear. And we do that by remembering the Lord because He's great and awesome, and if He's for us, no one can be against us. And then the charge to us is like, go, have a bias for action, Go fight for your wives, your sons and daughters. Yeah. Hey, I want to just click through some of the Scriptures.

1 Kings 2 verses 1 and 2, be strong therefore and prove yourself a man. 1 Corinthians 16, 13, Jason, you've quoted this, act like men. 1 Samuel 4, 9, be strong and conduct yourselves like men. This is what men are supposed to be. They are supposed to be strong.

Joshua 10.25, do not be afraid nor be dismayed. Be strong and of good courage. Joshua 1.8, have I not commanded you to be strong and of good courage, do not be afraid. So this is how men should be. If a man is not like that, he should, he should repent of any sin that's holding him back from actually acting like a man and to be that stabilizing ballast in the face of the storm.

If you're blessed enough to have a man like this, tell him, tell him how strong he is. Tell him, you have no idea what it does for the heart of a man to hear that the strength that he worked so hard on and the stabilizing influence that he worked so hard on is making an impact on you and the children. And you just put wind in his sails for another week, at least, if you do that. Yeah. I was talking to a husband and wife at church on Sunday during our fellowship meal.

And I was telling him about this. And the wife looked at me and she said, You know, it took me 10 years to appreciate the difference between me and my husband. And the husband said, yep, that's true. Spoken like a man. But what she said was, at some point, she began to appreciate her husband's, I'm going to use the wrong word, stoic stability.

I don't want to overplay the stoic part, but I think you know what I'm talking about. This is a man who knows who God is. He knows that God's in control, and he probably knows what he should do about it. And he needs to rally his family around the power and the sovereignty of God and to lead with might. That's what men are supposed to do.

Earlier, we were talking about some of the best deacons we've ever known. Yeah. Some of the best deacons we've ever known were weeping deacons. That's exactly right. Meaning they were very tenderhearted men and that's what made them so good at it because it's a ministry of mercy in the church.

So they had this ability to weep with those who weep. That's biblical, Jesus weep. But as I see the faces of these men that I'm thinking about who are weeping deacons, they were manly men in the extreme at the same time. So this isn't about, do you have a tenderheartedness that allows you to weep at those who eat? No.

It's not what we're talking about. Yeah. No, it's about older men being sober-minded in Titus 2.2. It's about the younger men also being inclined as their disciple towards sober-mindedness. Self-controlled is really what it is.

Yeah, self-control. Yeah, and really, boys need to be brought up to control their emotions. Little boys, you know, tend to want to fly off the handle and scream and yell and things like that. They need to be taught very early, you do not act like that. Right.

Amen. You have to control your emotions and bring them into line to God's truth. Okay, so there you have it. Big boys, don't cry. Unless they're deacons.

Unless they're deacons. Yeah. So thanks, guys. I appreciate it. It's a pleasure to be together.

Okay. And thanks for joining us on the Church and Family Life podcast. Hey, I hope you can come and join us at our national conference next year, next May, Manhood and Womanhood, the glory of God in the creation order. I hope you can come. We encourage you to check out ChurchandFamilyLife.com