Welcome to the Church and Family Life podcast. Today we've got a big upgrade. My wife Debra is here and we're going to talk about what parents need to do for their children and we're going to be working off of this book. Hope you can get the book. Hope you enjoy the discussion.

We're not here to talk about hands-off parenting at all. It doesn't work. We're here to talk about hands-on parenting, what parents are supposed to do. And our teacher is from the 1600s, William Gooshe. And we're gonna walk through one of the chapters of his book on raising kids, Building a Godly Home, a Holy Vision for Raising Children.

So chapter seven. We're just gonna talk about that. So you guys have taught this on three continents. North America, South America, and Africa, I'm only a two-continent guy myself. Oh, man.

But we've been all over the place teaching a lot of these things, but they're so well articulated by William Gooshe. Yep. Yep. Hawaii and places like that as well. So there you go.

Okay, so we're gonna pull straight out of William Gooshe's outline of this chapter and I'm just gonna state them, okay? First, parents need to power up while kids are young. That's point number one. Point number two, parents need to teach their children good manners. How about that?

How legalistic is that? Third, parents ought to train up their children to be in some good vocation. And fourth, parents need to teach their children what Guj calls piety. And finally, parents need to redeem the time. So there you have it.

Let's pound through these here. You know, parents need to power up when their kids are young. What Goose says is that children have a teachableness when they're young. They have an ability to learn. He calls it an aptness to learn.

And that readiness and that capability really puts a responsibility on parents. It's funny, he starts off the chapter saying that even the most cruel beasts do these things. Meaning lions care for their children, you know, and then they go out and do other things. So the argument is how much more diligence should parents give if even the most cruel beasts on earth give attention to it. Yeah.

And there are the moments. That's when the moments are, is when they're young. And beasts know that. Every animal knows to train their young. They don't wait until they're teenagers.

Because they're the most teachable then. That's it. And there it begins to close down. They don't already have bad patterns, bad habits to be broken. You start teaching them right away.

He says, he says, do it early because the time is going to go by. It's time is going to be lost really fast. And you know, he's, he's saying that this is part of the inheritance that you give your children. And he says it's better than money. Getting a quick start with raising your kids is better than giving them money.

And I was just this morning reading Psalm 119 and I hit verse 72. The law of your mouth is better to me than thousands of coins of gold and silver so you know if you want to provide an inheritance for your kids get on it earlier let me say that again If you want to provide a good inheritance to your children and enduring inheritance, get on it early and get on it hard. Yeah, I think all of us have known parents over time who began to be exposed to the biblical pattern of child training a little later, and they hadn't attended this in their young, and wow, did they have a wrestling match on their hands trying to get it established with eight-year-olds, nine-year-olds, ten-year-olds, teenagers. So the people who are taught this early, Janet and I were taught this so early that we were able to get on it early and it made just a world of difference. And so By age 60, you know, it's like everything is fine.

He's talking about teaching your children to order their lives. That's a big, big deal. And part of that is teaching them good manners. And he collects this up under Proverbs 22, 6, train up a child in the way that he should go. And he spends several pages just talking about teaching your children manners.

He says, good manners are a very beautiful and appropriate thing. Yeah, I have a quote from this section too that I'd like to read. Guge says, good manners openly display the beauty of piety and religion and make it to be much more respected, for which reason Peter exhorted believing wives to wisely direct their conduct before unbelieving husbands, and Paul exhorts all sorts of Christians to walk honestly toward them that are without. So there's a value to children having good manners that adorns the gospel. What would outsiders think of the gospel?

Well, they watch you and your children. And when children know how to relate with you and with other people respectfully and with good manners, it actually beautifies the profession that we're making. And then he goes right on to say the opposite is also true when professing Christians have rude children, that it actually brings a stain on the faith. You know, what's fun about Gouges, what's interesting about him is he, he always drops in objections, right? Objection, answer, objection, answer.

And he offers this one comment objection. Yeah, but manners can't save your soul. That's kind of the idea. And, And the answer is, well, you know, your soul can't be healthy without piety, you know, without good manners. It's a reflection.

Good manners is a reflection of a good soul. And then there's another objection that he lists that good manners hinder grace. And that one he just says, that's not true. That's so stupid. Basically that's ridiculous.

Hardly, hardly worth, you know, a response. He talks about the fact that parents often suffer because of the way that the kids were brought up. That children's rudeness, not caring about how they conduct themselves, actually brings suffering to the parents because they have to live with it. They have to live with the trouble of it. Manners is about how you treat other people.

Yeah. How you treat other people's things, like when they're little, you don't jump on couches. And so, of course, it would matter when parents would reap those fruits, is because their children aren't thinking about their parents, they're only thinking about themselves. And that gets, when you get to be our age you start thinking about that How do your children how do your children think about you? If you didn't train them not to think about themselves solely and not give them any manners That's a really good point.

That's why it matters so much is manners is a reflection of what you're centered around. Children who are centered just around themselves and are never contradicted are very rude. And children who have been taught to actually focus outside themselves or treat other people well and their stuff well. 05.30 You know, Deb and I, we have this thing on Tuesdays called Cousin Day, and we bring the cousins over and we teach them and do play games and stuff like that. All 19 of them that are on the property.

So one time a little while ago we brought them all together to teach table manners and we served them spaghetti. Okay. To learn how to learn how to twirl the spaghetti, you know, eat it without getting out of it. And it was so fun because they were having contests and you know, you just never know who's going to be really good at it. And so we were teaching them table manners, and we watched a couple of videos about eating with the queen, because you can't eat any way you want when you eat with the queen.

And that was really fun. In fact, we need to do it again. I think we need to do it again. It'd be really fun. Another thing we did is if you're a pastor, you know that that communion tray is often in danger when it's going down the line.

Of children. Of children, especially little ones. Two parents and eight kids and the parents can't be between every kid. It gets scary. So, so we practiced passing the communion train.

Okay. And we're talking about two year olds passing the community. Right. They did, They did really great. And you know, there are some families where it really is dangerous because, you know, one kid, you know, was going to hold the thing up and try to skip his sibling.

And one time I was serving the Lord's Supper and there was a child that was a couple of spaces away from the parents and that tray was coming down and he had this machinvious look on his face and he was looking around and the tray comes to him And he takes a cup and he slugs it down. Okay. He passes on. And so, of course, his mother wasn't too happy about that. Picked him up to take him out.

So she picked him up and walking behind me, I heard him say, that was good. Table manners. That probably wasn't the end of that story, actually. He's never done it again. It is funny that I told him that we did this table manners past the thing and now this this family is like Sterling.

Okay let's conclude the one about manners. Third, training up children for some good vocation. This is a responsibility of parents. Parents have to teach their kids to work. It's a really, really important thing.

Yeah, and I think we sort of have the vocabulary problem that vocation isn't a word we use, and so we translated in our minds to make them ready to get a job. At the time when Gouge was writing, they were thinking a lot, I think they were thinking differently than we typically do about getting a job. To them, it was about calling and dominion-taking. So this is about preparing children, yes, to do something productive, but you should be thinking about these things as calling and dominion-taking. Yeah.

He says the best ordinary means that can be given to keep a child from the vanities of youth, from excessive pursuit of pleasures, from sinful games, from laziness, from bad company. Then he says when parents allow their children to live like little masters at home and spend all their youth in doing nothing productive, anyway that's not a good thing. So Gu is just urging parents to be diligent to teach your children to work and to prepare them for life or for Your supporting a family, you know a wife supporting her husband to support the family He's he's got a list. He's There are lots of lists in this chapter. He's a list guy.

But I thought the list was great, so let me read just some selections from the list. Special means for children to support themselves and their family, to help those that are in need, to assist their parents, and if the need of parents require it, to support them. So obviously, there is an economic component for this. You need to prepare for it. Number three, it is a means in which and by which they may serve the nation which they live.

So here we get to vocation being more than just getting a job, it's something, you should be engaged in something that helps your nation. Number four, it is the best place in which the general duties of Christianity may be most displayed and best performed. So an eye to having a job, having a vocation where you can actually live out the faith in a way that makes an impact in the world. I thought that was a great thought. And finally, number five, it is the best ordinary means that can be given to keep a child from the vanities of youth, from excessive pursuit of pleasures, from sinful games, from laziness and from bad company and such evils.

These are not only sins in themselves, but are also the occasions and provocations to other far worse sins that destroy the life of young people. So you think about how young people are using their time and often squandering hours, days, weeks, months, and the things that they're doing, and Goosh interjects and says, this will help with that. This will strip away the time to be wasted, you know, in the ways that they're being wasted. You know, and one of the most important things parents need to do is work with their children. When you work with your children, you're able to head off bad habits.

You know, children typically want to be lazy. They want to disappear. You know, if everybody's shoveling dirt, somebody's going to want to just lean on a shovel. And teaching your children to work begins with working with your children you don't just delegate work to your children especially when they're young you can delegate later and and if they've been well trained they can do a really really good job you know one of the things like Deborah our grandchildren do a lot of work around our property. They mow lawns and they, they do all kinds of things.

And what's really interesting, their parents taught them how to work and they work and they do a good job. It's amazing. But those weren't children left to themselves. Those parents worked with their kids, and they corrected the problems that are normal in working. Well, then parents need to think about that.

At a time, I think that's why it's hard, is because it really is very parent-directed. And so it's super labor-intensive on parents. They can't just put them in front of a computer screen. But you got to do it. Just have to do it.

A lot is required. You know what? You're laying down your life as a parent. It's been delegated for a long time, and you can see the effects of it. You go to the local mall, if they still have them, and see it.

It's super sad. They don't know how to work. And so then you hear that people can't keep jobs. So homeschooling mothers, Guj actually takes up the starting point of this, and he calls it establishing foundational things. So, the teaching of these building blocks that you'll need no matter what vocation you go into.

There are certain things that everybody needs to know, whether you're going into a trade or whether you're going to be a PhD in chemistry. You have to know these things to sort of move on to the next thing. And it made me think of the homeschooling mothers that I know and how diligently almost all of them are doing and teaching foundational things. And all of their kids, no matter what they'll end up doing, will need those things. Yeah.

Dave, remember what we used to say when our kids were working together, you know, on Saturdays where they're cleaning up the house or we're out in the yard. Work hard, work fast, don't stop, look for more. Look for more thing, isn't it? There's A little song, you know, work hard, work fast, don't stop, look for more. So one last point on vocation, Gouge makes the point that you need to consider fit for your children.

In other words, you have some children that would be great at trades doing something physical, And that's great work and needed work and honorable work. So if you have children that are fit for that, steer them into that, but you'll have other children that are more fit for brain work is what they like to do, and God's given them minds for that. And so just the consideration of the providence of God and how He's made our children in considering how to prepare each one. So there's not a cookie cutter that you just stamp out, you know, children. God made them in a certain way and you should be thinking about that as you think about preparing them for a vocation.

Yeah. And I know there's no cookie cutter thing. However, I don't care if you are gonna be a techie and work behind a computer screen, I really want you to know how to labor. I want you to know how to do this. I want you to learn how to change the oil in the car.

And there's just certain things that even eggheads need to know how to do, and Especially when they're little. Like everybody's on the same level when they're little. And so when you're seven, you're not gonna tell me, well, I'm a reader. Mom, I don't need to take out the trash. Okay, that may come when they're older, maybe.

But is your- Taking out the trashes in the trades, huh? And it's not very much, yeah. Yeah, so especially when they're little, everybody needs to learn to work and to look for the work that needs to be done. When they get older, yes, I think fitness is much more a question. For sure.

But when they're older, not. Goose will say children. And I'm defining, it's fine children, right? There's the young children, older children. Yes.

So when your child says, Mom, I'm not a hands-on person. What should a mother say? This is what I said. I said, you know, I'm not a cook. And yet you eat dinner day after day here in my home.

I had to work hard at it. I had to learn to be a cook because y'all want to eat. And so, sorry. Okay, I'm just going to shoot some of the things that he says and then we can expand a little bit. He says piety is the best thing a parent can teach his child.

He says it's necessary because they're not born Christians. And he says parents are under divine obligation to teach their children piety so that they don't live and die in ungodliness through the parents negligence and then he says the parents that their blood will be required let's see let me say this different yeah their their blood will be required at the parents' hands. And he gives the example of Eli. So he's bringing a strong urgency because your children aren't saved. They need to know the Word of God.

So let's talk about that. Scott, like vocation, piety is not a word that we use. How are you defining that? How would Goosh have thought of piety? I think it's biblical godliness.

Yeah, and it begins with salvation and the fruits of it. But you require it. You require it whether they're saved or not. You are going to require a certain amount of holiness from your children. He says that whatever principles of piety parents teach their children, they must be grounded in the Word of God.

So that's what he's talking about. He's talking about communicating the truth of God to children, and he's likening that to piety. He says, you know, when children begin to read, let them read the scriptures. You know, make that the thing that they're setting their eyes on when they read. And it is foundational.

I guess one of the foundational things I think in anybody's home and anybody's school is I knew, I knew that my kids would make it if they were holy, if they actually loved the Word of God and believed it and lived by it. And it didn't matter what vocation they chose, it didn't matter where they lived, it didn't matter what they came up against in their life, they were going to be interpreted through Scripture because they love it, because to them it was holy, it was true, it was right. And so as far as I'm concerned, that's like the baseline, that's it, that's foundational, is that you want your kids to love the word of God and love to live by it and trust it with all their hearts. And he says, catechize them day after day. He says, rehearse them continually to your children.

And then he quotes Deuteronomy 6-7. But this is a family life that's saturated in the Word of God. So this is one of the places where he brings an objection and then answers it. In this case, the objection is, that's the job of ministers. And then he proceeds to Dismember that, you know, just totally obliterate that argument.

No, you have all the hours, you have all the influence. God has made you watchmen over your children. He gives, there's a whole list of them, I won't read them, but There's a whole list of things that says, no, parents have the primary place. Ministers might have 100 children in their congregation, but God has only put a few in your family, and you have the core responsibility. Yeah, and he terrifies parents.

He's saying, look, you brought them into the world, you passed on original sin. He says, if parents allow their children to persist and die in that corrupt condition, they are crueler than the ostrich and the dragon. So he's just saying it's cruel to leave your children in impiety, you know, without God in the world. So then he turns to the matter of redeeming the time. Kind of where he started out the chapter, really.

And he says, that which is learned in childhood is kept the longest, and that's why parents need to jump on it really early. Yeah, throughout the chapter, he's been quoting Proverbs 22, 6, train up a child in the way he should go. But the second part of that verse is, And when he is old, he will not depart from it. And he's drawing from that, that the things that you teach them from the youngest age are the things that stay with them all through life, which is so true. He also talks about how critical it is to teach them when they're young.

And here's how he said it, a problem is much more easily prevented than fixed. So, go into prevention mode. That's the message of the chapter. So there you go. What do parents need to do?

They need to power up while the kids are young. Second, they need to teach their children good manners. Third, they need to train up their children some good vocation. And fourth, they need to teach their children piety. And fifth, they need to redeem the time.

A closing quote, this is right at the end of the chapter, he says, the father's putting off this duty, he's talking about child training, the father's putting off this duty to the mother, And the mother's putting it off to the father as a great cause of the neglect of it. Were both of them persuaded that it belonged to them both, and as a result would work together as a team, children would be instructed much better. So fathers and mothers should undertake this as a team. The mother has most of the hours while dad is working and providing, but that does not mean this is mom's work. Dad owns this, and they're a team.

Amen. Good deal. Okay, well thanks. Great stuff from William Gooch. Enjoyed it.

Yeah. Hey, thanks for joining us on the Church and Family Life podcast, and we hope you can join us next time. Church and Family Life is proclaiming the sufficiency of Scripture by helping build strong families and strong churches. If you found this resource helpful, we encourage you you you