Times of church discipline are always difficult and emotionally trying to the church which is in the midst of the conflict. It can also be difficult and painful for other churches in association or the denomination. This is especially true when there is not clear, unanimous agreement over the exercise of discipline. How should churches seek to reconcile and promot the peace of the gospel when there is amore conflict created by the decision to bring church discipline to bear against a member? Thankfully God's word, and God's people throughout history, have laid out principles that we can learn much from in dealing with this difficult issue.

Praise the Lord for his goodness to us today. I'm very thankful for what we have heard, many things to think about. We're going to read a lengthy passage. Acts 15 verses 1 through 35. This is an extended passage.

Let's give our attention to the holy word of God. And certain men which came down from Judea taught the brethren and said, except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved." When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain other of them should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles. And they caused great joy unto all the brethren. And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees, which believed, saying that it was needful to circumcise them and to command them to keep the law of Moses. The apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter, and when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel and believe. And God which knoweth the hearts, bear them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us, and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore, why tempt ye God to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved even as they.

Then all the multitude kept silence and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them and after they had held their peace James answered saying men and brethren hearken unto me Simeon had declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles to take out of them a people for his name, And to this agree the words of the prophets as it is written, After this I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David which is fallen down. And I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up, that the residue of men might seek after the Lord and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is that we trouble not them which from among the Gentiles are turned to God, but that we write unto them that they abstain from pollutions of idols and from fornication and from things strangled and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day, then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely Judas, Surname, Barsabbas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren, and they wrote letters by them after this manner.

The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch, and Syria, and Cilicia. For as much as we have heard that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words subverting your souls saying you must be circumcised and keep the law to whom we gave no such commandment. It seemed good to us, unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas who shall also tell you the same things by mouth for it seemed good to the Holy Ghost and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things that ye abstain from meats offered to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication, from which, if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well, Fare ye well." So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch, and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle, which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words and confirmed them.

And after they had tarried their space, they were let go in peace from the brethren unto the apostles. Notwithstanding, it pleased Silas to abide there still. Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord with many others also. Amen. May the Lord add his blessing to the reading of his word, Holy Father, we submit ourselves to thy inspired and infallible word.

We praise thee and we thank thee for giving us thy truth. Father, after dinner there will be many that will find staying awake a difficulty. I pray with all of my heart that thou wouldst breathe upon us by thy refreshing spirit. Make our minds and our bodies alert and awake. And Father, may we receive and understand the truth here.

Please grant me the grace to speak to thy people and may it do them good and bring thee glory in Christ's name amen please be seated From the earliest days of the Christian era until the present, the churches of the Lord Jesus Christ have often faced difficult decisions and doctrinal dissension. Resolving these matters is rarely easy. Nevertheless, such resolution is crucial for the health of Christ's blood-bought congregations. In light of this, the sacred text we have just read is helpful in guiding us when such matters arise. However, the passage itself is a hotbed of controversy for numerous reasons, not the least being that among the professing people of God there exist significantly different views of ecclesiology, the doctrine of the Church.

Baptistic, Presbyterian, Anglican, and other ecclesiological views come to this chapter and reach very different conclusions about the events recorded here and what to draw from it. Now in this session we simply do not have time to identify, untangle, or resolve the naughty issues that arise because of differing ecclesiologies. We don't even really have time to name them all and even give a bird's eye view of their perspectives. Therefore, our specific purpose will be to focus just on one vital subject, and that is churches working together in matters of disagreement over church discipline. Now, there are a lot of scenarios where there are differences of opinion over church discipline.

I am simply taking one, and this will be plenty, I imagine, for most of us. Many things could be taught under this heading. I have chosen, after some talk with Scott, this particular subject. The churches of the Lord Jesus Christ that hold to the 1677-89 London Baptist Confession believe that the infallible word teaches the independence and autonomy of the local church. Nevertheless, we also believe that the Scriptures teach varying degrees of interdependence among like-minded churches.

I will repeat that. We believe that the Scriptures teach varying degrees of interdependence among like-minded churches. There's a lot of disagreement about the things I'm going to say, so I've tried to choose my words carefully. So for the sake of full disclosure, the discussion will be rooted in the interpretation of scripture that gives rise to the Declaration of the Second London Baptist Confession, chapter 26, paragraph 15. So you'll have some idea of the filters in place here.

The point is this. In matters of doctrine and church administration, the Lord Jesus Christ uses representatives of churches that hold communion together to resolve difficult congregation or individual issues, and we will focus on the subject of church discipline. With this in mind, the 1689 Confession, Chapter 26, Paragraph 15, says, In cases of difficulty or differences, either in point of doctrine or administration, wherein either the churches in general are concerned, or any one church, in their peace, union, and edification, or any member or members of any church are injured in or by any proceedings, incensors, not agreeable to truth and order. It is according to the mind of Christ that many churches holding communion together do by their messengers meet to consider and give their advice in or about the matter in difference to be reported to all the churches concerned. Howbeit these messengers, assembled, are not entrusted with any church power, properly so called, or with any jurisdiction over the churches themselves, to exercise any censures either over any churches or persons, or to impose their determination on the churches or officers.

Now, this passage is actually rooted in Acts 15, of which we will give a very brief exposition. So we want to consider first the biblical basis for seeking interchurch counsel. The biblical basis for seeking interchurch counsel. So we want to consider the Jerusalem Council and the events laid out before us in Acts chapter 15 verses 1 through 35. First the problem.

Judaizers arrived in the church at Antioch bringing false doctrine. Except you be circumcised, they said, after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. Now, this was a doctrinal issue in general and a gospel issue in particular. Paul and Barnabas sharply disagreed with and hotly disputed the Judaizers because their doctrinal views were a direct attack upon the gospel. They went up to the church at Jerusalem to discuss the matter with the apostles and elders.

There they encountered this erroneous doctrine once again among the believing Pharisees. Number two, the consideration and resolution of the problem. This is verses 6 through 21. The first section was verses 1 through 5. Now in the Jerusalem church the apostles and elders discussed this matter against the backdrop of God's remarkable work of conversion among the Gentiles.

Four speakers were prominent in the discussion. Peter, Barnabas, Paul, James. Peter wisely reasoned from his own gospel work among the Gentiles and declared, God put no difference between us and them purifying their hearts, the Gentiles, by faith. We believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved even as they. Then Barnabas and Paul testified what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

Finally, James, standing firmly on the prophets of the Scriptures, summed up the matter, affirming that faith in Christ alone is necessary for salvation. He also proposed a letter to the Gentile churches urging them to abstain from certain idolatrous practices and from fornication. Number three, the confirmation of the resolution to the problem, verses 22 through 29. The apostles, elders, And the entire Jerusalem church agreed to send messengers with a letter to Antioch. This letter contained the summary of the doctrinal discussion that had been resolved.

Number four, the joy of the church in Antioch because of the resolution to the problem. Verses 30 through 35, upon receiving this letter containing the resolution, the church at Antioch rejoiced. Judas and Silas ministered to the church and then Judas returned to Jerusalem. Paul and Barnabas also continued in Antioch teaching and preaching the word of the Lord there. And Now, all of this was vitally important for more than one reason, but this was truly a turning point in the history of the church, because even though this was important to the church at Antioch, there was a far bigger issue in view.

From this point on, Acts 15, The primary theme of Acts is the gospel spreading out into the Gentile world. It certainly included Jews, but now they were going to the Gentiles. And this issue had to be dealt with before that holy endeavor began in earnest. So that was resolved. The Gentile church at Antioch would not be the only Gentile church affected by Jewish error, as the apostolic letters make very, very plain.

So we're seeing a very early doctrinal error that would be showing up in other churches, and it wasn't resolved simply by a church, though we can argue about the first church at Jerusalem, but the fact of the matter is, what we have said before us is churches collaborating over an important issue. There are many details here that we can't touch. This is just a very quick survey in order for us to move to the next thought, and that's this. Paul's second letter to the Corinthians also gives us a biblical basis for churches working together. Paul wrote to Corinth, and we have sent with him, Titus, the brother whose praise is in the gospel throughout all the churches.

This is a well-known brother among the churches. And not only that, but who also, who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace. Plural, churches appointing a man to represent them in this work of benevolence. This is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord and declaration of your ready mind. The apostles sent a brother.

He remains unnamed here. There are lots of speculations about who he is, but what we want to focus on is the fact that His praise is in the gospel through all the churches. He's well known, he has the confidence of the churches. He's been chosen to travel with Titus, and furthermore, the churches chose to send this same brother with Paul in delivering a financial gift to impoverished saints. So we will not spend any time unfolding all of this, but we will make a simple point.

Churches can cooperate in a common endeavor. I realized that for any of his thinking, lots of flags ought to go up and there have to be all kinds of qualifications, none of which we have time to pursue. We're just laying a very simple foundation, especially knowing that there are different ecclesiologies represented here. We're trying to get to a common denominator that may be useful to us. At least that is my hope.

So then, These two important passages, and there are some others, lay the foundation for interchurch cooperation in dealing with doctrinal and administrative matters. Acts 15, doctrinal, 2 Corinthians, an administrative matter, sending a gift to needy brethren. We will consider the confessional basis now for dealing with disagreements over church discipline. These passages and a few others are the foundation upon which the brethren who gave us the 1689 confession built their case for interchurch council, interchurch work. We find the basis for what we will refer to as associations.

We find the basis for associations, not denominations, but associations, or holding communion together, laid out in paragraph 14. This is the foundation upon which 15 rests. As each church, paragraph 14 says, and all the members of it are bound to pray continually for the good and prosperity of all the churches of Christ in all places and upon all occasions to further it, everyone within the bounds of their places and callings in the exercise of their gifts and graces. So the churches, when planted by the providence of God so as they may enjoy opportunity and vantage for it, ought to hold communion amongst themselves for their peace, increase of love, and mutual edification. Now, the holy obligation, it's the way it is viewed by some, in the words, ought to hold communion among themselves, or the basis for this idea of associating.

Ought to. If the Lord has put us within our means and locales and doctrinal issues that can work together, we ought to hold communion together. This is the idea. Now I think I only have to say something like this one more time, but let me say that we do not have time to unfold the ins and outs of associations. Now, that's another controversy among particular slash Reformed Baptists.

But for a helpful view on the idea of formal associations, those of you that are taking notes, if you want some very good information on formal associations, Read James M. Renehan's very helpful book, Edification and Beauty. The Practical Ecclesiology of the English Particular Baptists, 1675-1705. Yes, it's an academic book. With a title like that, it's not a snappy one-liner.

Edification and Beauty, the name of the book. The Practical Ecclesiology of the English Particular Baptist, 1675-1705. It's a very, very helpful book. It has a useful chapter surveying contemporary ecclesiological literature to shed light on this subject. There is a very large paragraph in that book, excuse me, a very large chapter in that book specifically on this subject, associations.

He concludes that holding communion in paragraphs 14 and 15 does not mean informal or occasional fellowship or councils called for specific crises. Rather, it means, quote, an organic union of persons united by common religious faith and rights, the organized body professing one faith." Now, this means that communion meant formal membership. A church actually becomes a member of a formal association. That actually worked out in different ways as well, so we'll just say, there's the reality. The idea is membership in a group of like-minded churches with messengers or representatives of each congregation.

Regular meetings, at least annually, some met more often than that, and holding one another accountable. Now to read the informal association view, which is not obviously a hold to the things I've just articulated by Dr. Rennihan, see David Chansky. He wrote, Another Reformed Baptist Perspective on Associations of Churches. I commend both of these to you.

I encourage you to read them, especially if your church confesses the 1689. And if you read both of them, these two men will help you think through the primary issues involved in both perspectives. So I'm not arguing for one or the other presently, but setting both of those before you as both may be represented here and certainly among those that perhaps may hear this. My purpose is not to draw attention to this particular view or the other, simply to say this is what our Baptist forebears envisioned and it's slightly different among those who hold the confession. Now, we want to consider the determining factors for the interchurch peacekeeping.

Paragraph 15 begins with number one, the problem in cases of difficulties or differences. As brother Dan said repeatedly yesterday to good effect, church discipline is hard. Our brethren are giving us very clear testimony to that. They were saying it. I believe God's people throughout the ages have said it.

It is clearly here in our confession in cases of difficulties or differences. Then number Two, the factors provoking the problem. What are they? Either in point of doctrine or administration. As we've already pointed out, Acts gives us that basis for doctrinal scrutiny and 2 Corinthians gives us the idea regarding administration.

Number three, the effects of the problem, that is, of difficulties and differences. Something that disturbs the peace, the union, the edification of a church or churches. Now we have seen the passages upon which this paragraph is built. Is built. The purpose is to say yet again our brethren with much prayer and considering Both of the Scriptures and of the congregational platform of churches and the Westminster Confession came out with a mammoth 15-paragraph chapter of ecclesiology of the three confessions, the Westminster, the Savoy, and the 1689, the 1689 dwarfs the others as far as just information and teaching regarding ecclesiology.

And these were two very important paragraphs to them. So now personally I'd rather be doing an exposition out of the Scriptures preaching Christ. However, what gives me some comfort in doing an agreed-upon assignment is that it's Christ's church. That's why he died on Calvary's cross. He didn't die just to save us.

And I don't diminish that. He died to bring his church into existence. And so these are church matters and therefore his matters. And that means they should matter to us. That being the case, we press on.

All right. We want to consider then the scope of the circumstances as we pick apart this particular paragraph and get down to our issues on discipline. First of all, the scope involves the churches in general, wherein either the churches in general are concerned, it says, local church or any one church in their peace, union, and edification. Any members or member of any church are injured in or by any proceedings, in censures, this is pointing to church discipline, not agreeable to truth and order. That's the idea.

There can be issues, difficulties that arise regarding doctrine and administration. Under the heading administration, there's a multitude of things. One of them would be church discipline. So that's the idea. We're over here in the map, if you're following how I'm laying this out.

If not, I'll try to clear it up later. The independence and the interdependence that scriptures assert for the local churches is not immense, or I should say there's not a tremendous amount of scriptural data, but the data that's there seems compelling. We should be able to see that there is some like-mindedness and agreement among churches in pursuing various endeavors. If we have these difficulties, these differences, and these difficulties and or differences upset the peace, the union, the edification of churches in general, perhaps, churches that we know that are affiliated with the NCFIC, or with particular Baptist, Reformed Baptist associations, those things may be addressed. Any one church or any member or members.

So it goes all the way down to the individual. This may just sound like a confession, but there's a very distinct attempt here to see the importance of the church without losing the importance of an individual. And without being so individualistic that we don't think of the church, We tend to err on both sides. So there is a tremendous balance here in the paragraph as they wrestle to say, we can have difficulties, we can have troubles from a single individual all the way up to a group of churches. And there is some place to appeal when those issues are troubling us.

That's the idea. So then, the independence and the interdependence is set out here in the scriptures and I trust you will follow out the ones in the confession to your own satisfaction. Thirdly, the purpose of interchurch meetings. The purpose, okay, our forebears wrote, it is according to the mind of Christ that many churches holding communion together. That's the language.

Do by their messengers or representatives meet to consider and give their advice. Once again, very important. To meet, consider, and give their advice in or about that matter, indifference. To be reported to all the churches concerned." This is really a very important part. If you can read right over and not see the essential notions there for us.

The two important things I would draw your attention to is one, they give advice, advice, just counsel, And two, they report to all the churches. That's very, very interesting. The idea is, if there's a problem going on in this church, Some make an appeal to some of their like-minded brethren to help them, and say three churches in that association of churches send their representatives to the congregation to sit and to hear what's going on, then to think through it and to give their advice, they publish it to the churches involved. There's a really wonderful sense of balance again here. That keeps things from being secretly held, because some churches and some individuals will completely blow off what other people tell them.

But since those churches have been included in this, the churches need to know that their counsel wasn't received, or that their counsel was received. So they report that. That's actually quite a power there, properly used. The limitations, number four, the limitations upon interchurch meetings. The paragraph says, Howbeit these messengers assembled are not entrusted with any church power, properly so called.

The word power there means authority. It's the same idea when Christ said, all power in heaven and earth has been given unto me. It's not talking about his strength, it's talking about his authority. Or his strength by itself. So the idea is that these are messengers, they're representatives from like-minded churches who come and give their counsel.

Their counsel can be ignored. It does not have to be taken. It is not authoritative. But it can be most helpful. I'll try to give a few examples of that in just a few moments.

So it also says They don't have any jurisdiction over the churches themselves. They understand the independence of each church. So we've got two things balancing in the picture, independence and autonomy, and interdependence. And the two are attempting to work together in a balanced way in which the churches remain independent and yet are able to involve themselves in things that matter. No jurisdiction over the churches themselves to exercise any censures either over any of the churches or the persons.

They may come and conclude that a church is in very serious trouble, maybe they've got a diatrophies there, but they don't have the authority to bring them up on charges. They will, however, give their report to the other churches, or to impose their determination on the churches or officers. So there's a great deal of thought here attempting to keep independence and interdependence alive, well, functioning, properly helping one another, and yet not colliding with each other. So no authority, no jurisdiction to command the churches or individuals, but they have the power to involve the other churches that they represent because of the counsel they've given. Now there are three things, or maybe even more, we'll see, at least three things that we want to consider that are derived from this paragraph here's here's the first big picture thing the authority Christ grants his churches is limited the authority and its real authority because Christ is the head of the church, that Christ grants his churches is limited.

Only Christ, the head of the church, has absolute authority. He alone is sovereign, all knowing, all powerful, and all present. He knows every situation in all its details before it happens. Who is right? Who is wrong?

In all the nuances of every argument. He is the Lord God omnipotent that reigneth. God the Father hath given Christ to be head over all things to the church." Ephesians 1, 22. Again, for the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church. Ephesians 5, 23.

And again, he is the head of the body, the church who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence, Christ exalted in the church. And the head of the church has given his authoritative word to be administered by the elders of the church. The authority is not in the men. No man has any inherent authority. The elders administer the authoritative word under Christ the Head.

No human elder is sovereign, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-present. Each one is limited, faulty, and sinful, beginning right here. The authority in the churches is not in the elders themselves. It is a delegated authority. They are in an office Christ has appointed.

That's what makes it important. That's why you should love your elders and pray for them and encourage them and build them up in the faith. They're made of the same stuff as you are. They face the same temptations and we regularly hear tragically of elders failing. So, it's an impossible job, just like Christianity.

It's not possible for us in the flesh, but we have a savior, we have his spirit, we have his word, and we have his people. So, that brings us to the next thought. Each church, excuse me, I close this paragraph by saying that the authority in the churches is not absolute. That belongs to Christ alone. That the elders are to administer God's authoritative word to his people and they are independent.

Number two, our Baptist forebears believe that the decisions of a particular church or eldership were not necessarily the end of doctrinal or administrative issues. Not necessarily. This is not to undermine. It is simply to say that we all know we're fallible. I imagine most of you here that are pastors that have had any work with church discipline, have had people come and tell you, or people come to you from other churches and say, I wasn't treated fairly.

And very often they have no recourse. Our Baptist brethren are saying, there is a recourse. A particular church or an eldership are not necessarily, they must be according to truth and order. That's how they set it down. All of them were well aware of the biblical account of diatrophes.

The apostle John wrote, I wrote unto the church, but diatrophes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, received us not. He blows off an apostolic letter. Amazing. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words, and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren and forbideth them that would, and casteth them out of the church." Bad church discipline going on here. People being thrown out.

It's not according to truth and order. The best of confessions, you can go through them and just line after line, precept after precept you will find biblical thought. And that's certainly what we have here. So our forebears looked to associations as a way to avoid ecclesiological tyranny. It can happen.

I know of a church in my own state in which, and don't think, I don't want to sound overly negative here, a plurality of elders does not necessarily keep a church from being under tyranny. You can have three tyrants. Is that right? It's absolutely the case. I mean you can get good old boy systems just about anywhere.

And in this church tragically all three of the men were heavy-handed. And after a while, I mean, the fallout was awful. The people had no recourse. And they were going to church, showing up in churches all around the area and crying out for help. Help!

We're being excommunicated, and sometimes we're not even sure why. See, this is wrong. Churches can run off the tracks. And There needs to be an appeal somewhere, and thankfully, because this was a 1689 church, sorry for that disclosure, some of the 1689 churches attempted to hold them to their confession, and say, if you believe this, we'd like to talk with you. Some good things finally came out of that, actually, but it was a mess, and for quite a while, and there's a lot of scarred and bleeding sheep out there right now.

Oh, John Owen wrote this, I'm going to read a lengthy Owen quote. No church is infallible in their judgment, absolutely, in any case. And in many, their determinations may be so doubtful as not to affect the conscience of him who is censured. But such a person is not only a member of that church, but by virtue thereof of the Catholic Church also, meaning the universal church, small c not large r c. It is necessary therefore that he should be heard and judged as unto his interests therein.

Brethren, do you hear the love for God's sheep? That's what's going on here. We should love the church, we should love the sheep. Churches are made up of sheep. We don't want to lose the perspective of the individual or of the body.

We have to keep that holy balance before us. He's talking about a single individual. If he so desire it and this can no way be done but by such synods or councils as we shall immediately describe." He goes on to do that. Then he says, "...where there has been any maladministration of discipline, whereby any members of the church have been injured, as suppose they are unduly cast out of the Church by the power and interest of some diatrophes, or that any members of the Church make a party and faction to depose their elders. That happens too.

As it was in the church at Corinth when the church at Rome gave them advice in the case, it is necessary for the communication of church and the interest of persons injured in the Catholic Church whose edification is the end of all church administrations. That church is not to hurt them, it's to grow them in the faith. It's to make them more like Christ. Not to teach them like numbers, not to teach them like so much baggage to walk on. These are Christ's blood-bought people.

And Owen is speaking all the way down to the single individual. He needs a voice. And churches can get it wrong. Even good churches. In fact, that's part of the way you learn dealing with church discipline.

Wish it were not so, but that's the way it is. So he says, the person's injured, whose edification is the end of all Church administrations, that the proceedings of such a Church be reviewed by a synod and a remedy provided in the case. Nor Was it the mind of the apostles that they should be left without relief, which were unduly cast out of the church by any diatrophes? Nor is there any other ordinary hereof, but only synods." They would say, when we scour the scriptures, all we find is churches cooperating and people appointed so we can follow that pattern. It's really quite simple, but not practiced very much.

And like many other things regarding church discipline, when somebody's practicing it, they're often not doing it very well. But at least the idea, I believe, has a very important part to play. I really could have done quite a bit more on this, but let me get to my examples and bring this to a close. But I will say this, let me read two other headings and I will not elaborate on them. Thirdly, our Baptist forebears believed that churches and individuals could find help in separate counsel that would meet to advise and assist the churches.

Number four, our Baptist forebears believed that each local church was independent and autonomous, but this did not mean that they believed that churches could not be involved in cooperative efforts. It was the idea I was setting before you a while ago, independence and interdependence, trying to keep those things balanced properly. Well, I confess that until recently I had held something of the informal view. I have been challenged to consider the formal view more carefully, and I am doing that. So I cannot come down on one side or the other at this particular moment, but I can tell you certain things that we have done in the past, certainly from the informal perspective, which many Reformed Baptist churches hold.

I have always had a one, if I can say, board of brothers in the Lord that I consult. I always sat down with my fellow elder. We hammered through things, worked through those matters, but we never dealt with a consummated act of church discipline. There were several that started, but then we saw repentance and did not need to follow through. But in those where we had to make decisions to bring to the congregation for voting, there have been times when I've consulted as many as eight, all of these brothers.

I don't always call all eight. I don't want to wear out my welcome, but I check my mind. I check my thoughts. And then I would go back to my fellow elder and say, I think we're on the right track here. We've had this kind of response.

We need this, brethren. We need to talk. And I thank the Lord. There are men that call me occasionally. Doesn't take long.

But they say you want to pick your brain. I said it won't take you very long. So let me share just a couple of ideas with you. First, in a matter of a church disciplining A pastor, I have been called before by a 1689 church asking counsel, standing upon Chapter 25, 26, verse 15, chapter 26, paragraph 15. This was a very difficult situation, but other messengers were contacted as well.

We met. We discussed after hearing the information set before us. We prayed. We made suggestions. There were times when the church entirely ignored some of the things we said, and there were times when they implemented things that we suggested.

In fact, I recounted this at the very beginning of the discussion, saying we all understand that this is not an authoritative council. We are offering our advice to a church that has called upon us. And they worked through very difficult circumstances and came to a conclusion regarding the matter of disciplining an elder. Very difficult, very painful. To go through the meetings was really excruciating for me as an elder, to hear how we can fall, how easy it is.

Another time I was in a situation that was Similar, though I was not called upon to give my counsel, I was in a different situation, which I cannot disclose at this particular point, but found myself having to weigh in between a church that had excommunicated its pastor and the pastor who had resisted and rejected that excommunication. He did not believe that it was according to truth and order. He held firmly to the 1689 confession. And before the church excommunicated him, he had brought them right up to the point, reforming them, of embracing the confession. But they did not do so.

And after going through pages and pages and pages of documentation and letters, and he said and you said, and all of these things, the men that were involved on my side of things simply said, we see irregularities here in the Church, the Church said, we don't hold to your confession. We got Matthew 18. That's all we need. Now, that sounded spiritually in their ears, or it sounded spiritual in their ears, but it wasn't. And we saw some irregularities on the pastor's side.

And we said to them, we urge you, with all of our hearts, to do what we're talking about right here. Bring some men in that can sit down with both sides and hear both with each of them looking at each other. Both sides ignored us. So there's certainly no authority, And of course at that point, as I said, this was a slightly different situation. But here was a place where we brought to them, there is something you can do.

You are locked into this situation. You're not coming out of it. It's not going any further. They both sides have dug in. You need somebody else to help this because it's going to be divisive people adhere this side probably gonna side with them people here that side Are going to side with them and there will be a fisher in the church.

That's what these things do. It disturbs the peace of the churches. I was even called on this. Thirdly, now this will be interesting, Marcus ought to enjoy this one. There might be the possibility, I'm simply saying this before you, we went through it, no one here has to.

A man who was a sex offender came to us and said, I've been listening to your messages. I like what I'm hearing. I need help. I would like to attend your congregation. But I have to tell you, right up front, I was arrested.

I am in the books as a sex offender. He told us right up front. He was Presbyterian. And of course we are Baptists. And I said, well, you know, what does your church say?

What happened? Well, he was suspended. He had been suspended, as Jason was talking about today, not excommunicated, but he was indeed suspended. He came to us and we said, well, we would be happy to try to help you, but we've got to talk to your church and I've got to talk to the men in this church. They have to be ready for you to come in because we've got lots of children.

And so we had a men's meeting, a very long one, and I had the man come and tell his whole story. And I said, all right, we'll talk about this and we will let you know. The men believed that under certain circumstances it would be okay for him to be there. There would be someone watching him at every moment. He would never be alone with anybody.

And so he would come and he would hear the word of God. He said he could not truly get the kind of help that he needed for his soul from his church in his session. And this was his argument. But I called his church and I had a wonderful talk with one of the elders. We went through the entire case.

They said, we will release him to you under your authority and deal with him as you must because they were Westminster at the confession and we were 1689 and they said we disagree in a couple of areas that are serious but we can go with your confession if you believe in church discipline." Unfortunately, while we had the man, we had to finish his excommunication. And his church received it. They said, you have our full approval. About a year later, we restored him to fellowship and he went back into the Presbyterian church. That was very unusual.

That's some strange ecclesiological stuff. But what I'm saying is that an individual was saying, I need help. I may not be able to get it where I am. May I come here? And we gave him exactly what we told him.

You know, we encouraged him, we built him, we did all that we could to build him up in the faith. For a while he just looked like he was really progressing, but then he fell into a very tragic sin. And at that point, I called them and I made sure that they were on board with us and they said excommunicating and that's what we did. That was very unusual. Again, you may never face anything like that, but this is how odd things can become in church discipline issues.

I don't recommend this. I'm just saying it can happen because we did have enough common ground that we could talk very plainly, very clearly, and agree about a great deal of things. Well, Finally, let me give just one other little example. I happen to have been, at one time in my life, in a church that had one pastor and no accountability. And very tragically, It began to move into the direction of the diatrophes.

It can, and it does happen. Churches that hold to sound doctrine can become cultic, and people had no recourse. All they could do is just stumble out into the world after they'd taken as much as they could take. They were wounded and they were grieved. Our brothers in the faith believed that it didn't have to be that way, that there was recourse to God's people, and that it was in this thing that we call association or holding communion together, that like-minded churches can and should meet at certain points to work through issues that are destroying the peace and the unity of Christ's churches.

He died. The Prince of Peace died that we might live at peace, and we should be able to grow in his congregations healthily, strongly into the people for whom he gave his life. So particular Reformed Baptist churches have believed and participated in formal and informal associations since their inception. May the living God give His people wisdom in properly pursuing and establishing inter-church efforts, independence with interdependence. And unto Him be glory in the Church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end.

Amen. Father, we thank thee for thy goodness and grace. We realize this is very foreign territory for some, but Lord it is one more aspect among the things we must consider when we come together in this thing called Church Discipline. We want to honor thee with all our hearts. Help us to do that.

In Christ's name, amen.