In the sermon 'The Pulpit and Politics' by David Green, the complex relationship between religion and politics is explored. Green discusses the foundational question of whether the pulpit should engage with politics, emphasizing that Christian worship is inherently political as it declares loyalty to a higher sovereign, Jesus Christ, above any earthly government. He stresses that Christian citizens have a moral obligation to engage in political life, as God's sovereignty extends to all aspects of life, including politics. The sermon also highlights the historical involvement of Baptists in political battles, advocating for religious freedom and liberty of conscience. Green warns against completely ignoring politics in ministry but advises that the pulpit should not be driven by current political events, advocating instead for preaching the word of God. He discusses the legal implications of mixing politics with worship in the U.S., where endorsing political candidates from the pulpit might jeopardize a church's tax-exempt status. Green provides historical examples, such as the role Baptists played in achieving religious freedom in England and the U.S. Constitution's First Amendment. He also addresses the complexity of Christians' response to political conflicts, emphasizing that the word of God should guide their actions, even when this leads to conflict with government policies.

Well, I do appreciate this group and I appreciate this church. Brother Tyler and Brother John, I'm glad you all host this every month. It's an encouragement to me. Certainly this particular topic was is exciting. It's very, very broad.

I'm not going to be able to cover everything. And I don't even know if this is exactly what what brother waters had in mind, but he's not here. So Anyway, I wish he was will certainly catch him next time. The question set before us is, biblically, should the pulpit be involved in politics. And what a great thing to consider in the age and time that we live with all of the things that are going on in our world and in our country.

And certainly there's a lot going on. Brother Waters did reference an article, the link, and Brother Tyler did print that out because I forgot any handouts that I was going to bring, but that's in front of you there. I just read a portion of that. Just kind of kick us off there. Christian worship is, in essence, a political act.

Our worship of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior is a declaration that our ultimate sovereign is someone other than the duly selected head of a government or state. Through our worship we proclaim that our loyalty is not to a political party, a head of government, or even a nation, but to a different sovereign, a different kingdom, a different people. In worship we gather to be formed as an alternative polis, the people of God. And we proclaim that a new political order is present, though not yet fully realized, the kingdom of God. Someday that kingdom will come in fullness, a fullness to which all kingdoms and republics will submit.

In worship we assert by faith what will one day be manifest to all that every earthly sovereign is subordinate to the sovereignty of Jesus Christ. At the same time, Christians everywhere are citizens of an earthly kingdom or nation, and Christian citizens of every nation have a moral obligation to engage at some level in that nation's political life. Reformed Christians emphasize engagement with, rather than withdraw from, the culture and polity of which they are part. Since we know that God's sovereignty knows no bounds, it follows that politics is not outside the domain of God's sovereignty. Likewise, Reformed Christians emphasize the creation, fall in redemption narrative as all of creation awaits redemption.

The political spear stands in need of redemption, neither more nor less than any other spear of human activity. Believing that God's redemption is at work in his present world, spurs Christians to engage in political activity in submitting and contributing to the structure of political authority Christians may bring Christ's renewing influence to bear on public life. The article goes on to say, but interjecting politics within worship may risk violating certain legal status in the United States. The author says, I claim no knowledge of current legal provisions in Canada. For example, religious leaders may not endorse particular candidates for public office from the pulpit, doing so runs the risk that their congregation or denomination will lose its tax-exempt status.

Pastors may legally place campaign bumper stickers on their cars or campaign signs in their yards at home. Despite this particular restriction, pastors have long had the freedom to address the morality of political actions from the pulpit. American pulpits have been used as vehicles by which to examine and address the morality of institutional structures, public policy, and political actions on such topics as the abolition of slavery, the prohibition of alcohol, the civil rights movement, the Vietnam War and abortion. That's as far as the article is what I'm going to quote from. The article had a lot of good points and this is something that each individual church has to determine.

This is one of the great joys of being Baptists, the fact that we are independent autonomous churches. And so I know the topic already came up a little bit, the tax-exempt IRS kind of thing, the church I pastor, we don't have a 501c3 tax-exempt status or form, so that's never been a problem. But some churches do have that to think about and consider. I know the church I grew up in, it was incorporated. And so there's, you know, always a question mark.

But either way, as individual pastors and as churches, these are things we consider. And I think a lot of times I Think a lot of times That those the fear-mongering that comes from the IRS or from the news media, all that is intended to silence God's people. It's intriguing to me that there's certain political party especially likes to talk about the separation of church and state, and they mean to keep Christians quiet on certain issues. But then when a particular reverend gets elected to the Senate, All of his letters from the Senate office with the Senate letterhead and everything, he signs it reverend. Everything he signs it reverend and so it's basically there are churches who who do get more involved with politics.

And there are some who do it, who try to stay quiet. But we live in an age where we cannot be neutral about these things. I've brought some books that I'll share as we go along. Ultimately, we can't be neutral though. Jonathan Lehman wrote a book.

I can't share that one. It's digital. It's an e-book that I have, but I recommend it highly. It's called How the Nations Rage, Rethinking Faith and Politics in a Divided Age. And Jonathan Lehman said this.

He said, church and state are distinct God-given institutions and they must remain separate but every church is political all the way down and all the way through and Every government is a deeply religious battleground of gods No one separates their politics and religion Not the Christian not the agnostic not the secular progressive. It is impossible. So what is the biblical and historical answer to this? First of all, from a biblical and pastoral standpoint a lot of takes that I thought about but in 2nd Timothy chapter 4 2nd Timothy chapter 4 this is gonna be familiar ground to you brothers but we'll go there anyway this morning. Verses 1 through 5 Paul wrote to Timothy and he said, I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing in his kingdom, preach the word, be instant in season, out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine, for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lust shall they heap to themselves teachers having itching ears, and they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables but watch thou in all things endure afflictions do the work of an evangelist make full proof of thy ministry Regardless of what's going on in the political landscape, regardless of what's going on in Washington or Atlanta, the city council, let the word of God set the agenda for your pulpit ministry every week.

This has got to be the basis of what we're preaching from the pulpit. This is what the people need. This is what they need to be fed. It is a mistake to ignore completely politics, but it is also a mistake to be driven to make your agenda weekly. What's going on in Fox News or what's going on with the parties, whether it's the Republican Party or the Democrat Party.

It's also a mistake to make our sermon based off of what's going on in the political meanings of the congregation. We all like to be, we all like to be, at least I imagine we all do we like to hear a lot of Amen's we'd like to hear that was a great sermon and and you know you want to you want you and get some good feedback from your sermons, see where people are politically, and drive your sermons that way. People really appreciate that sort of thing, it seems like, a lot of times. But that's not what we're here to do. We are to preach the word And of course everything that goes along with that even when Even when the people do or will not endure sound doctrine.

And you know, your, our, Like I said, we don't totally ignore political issues of the day. Your Christian life and the life of those who hear us is not to be compartmentalized. In other words, they're not just Christians, we're not just Christians when we are assembled to worship. And as we preach, we must help them navigate through life, including home life, family life, and indeed all the other issues of life which would include the balance ballot box. For me, you know, I don't know how y'all do it.

Some of y'all I do because I listen to you on sermon audio or whatnot I appreciate you know what a joy it is the technology we have and even though we maybe don't get as much fellowship as what we could sometimes, But through technology we can hear each other. And it's a joy to know that the truth of God's word has been preached in each of these churches that are represented here. But for me, I like to do sequential exposition. That's kind of the meat and potatoes of my ministry. And so what's that look like?

Well, on Sundays I'm going through the Gospel of Mark. Have I hit on some political topics? Absolutely. So for instance in Mark chapter 6, Mark chapter 6 verses 15 through 18. Others said that it is Elias, and others said that it is a prophet, or is one of the prophets.

But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John whom I beheaded. He is risen from the dead. For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife, for he had married her. For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife. John got in trouble with the authorities because of taking a stand against Herod's unlawful marriage.

Well, what's the connection? You and I live in a society that is full of unlawful marriage. And We need to be bold enough to take a stand on those things, to stand for traditional biblical marriage, but also to be prepared in the case that it does come down to persecution or even death. Persecution is coming I believe in this country and I don't think it'll be because because brother Tyler over here isn't baptizing babies. I don't think we'll be persecuted for that.

I don't think it'll be because of some of the things that we saw in times gone by. I don't think it'll be because we refuse to pay taxes to the Roman Catholic Church. No, no. I think it'll be over issues like that. And so, you know, preach the text, but also application there of how these things might relate in our world.

Encourage people to be bold on these things. In the book of Acts, Acts chapter 23, Just as an example here, there are many, but Acts chapter 23, this was a recent sermon In verses 22, we'll begin in verse 22 there. It says, So the chief captain then let the young man depart, and charged him, See thou tell no man that thou hast shown these things to me. And he called unto him two centurions saying make ready 200 soldiers to go to Caesarea and horsemen three scorned ten and spearmen 200 Sorry, I'm in chapter 22, Acts 22, beginning of verse 22. And they gave him audience unto his word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth, for it is not fit that he should live.

And as they cried out, cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air. Then the chief captain commanded him to be brought into the castle, and bade that he should be examined by scourging. He might know wherefore they cried so against him. As they bound him with thongs, Paul said unto the centurion that stood by, Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is Roman and uncondemned? When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest, for this man is a Roman.

Then the chief captain came, said to him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea. And the chief captain answered it, with a great sum obtained I this freedom and Paul said but I was freeborn and then straightway they departed from him which should have examined him and the chief captain also was afraid after he knew that he was Roman because he had bound him. So what's the connection there? Well obviously Paul he was in trouble he threatened to be beaten all this sort of thing but he knew you see he didn't just give himself up to be beat up by those guys he didn't just give himself up to be beat up by those guys, he didn't just give himself up to be a martyr, but as we navigate through life, It is good for us to know we must know the word of God, but we also must know we ought to know our rights as citizens.

And for us, it's twofold, right? As citizens in this world, We are citizens of the United States, but we're also citizens of Georgia. And so we ought to know who our political leaders are. We ought to know what rights we have in each of those. And so we can appeal to one or the other if one oversteps the other and the law and so those sorts of things.

Now as we as we get into political items There are some things that are very clear in Scripture some things are very easy to to point out For example, you can go to the scriptures and you can very easily point out marriage should be between a man and a woman. Everything else is not biblical in this crazy world that we live in. We can go into the scriptures and we can very easily make the connection between abortion and murder There should not be an uncertain sound on these things But there are some things That aren't so clear And so liberty liberty should be given on those things. And we'll look at that a little bit later. But we can find a proper balance.

From history, from a historical point, I didn't find a lot of examples of sermons, but I did find some nuggets that I believe are important to kind of help us navigate through these things. There are examples of Baptists getting into political battles from old times until now. So I picked it up from the 1600s and you know it's it's a good reminder for us. It was a good reminder for me. As we hold our Bibles, look at our confession, those things didn't come easy.

Those men who were involved in writing the confession, those men who were involved in translating the Bible, Those guys paid a dear price for what they believed. And indeed, worked hard so that we would have it better. And so in England, the Baptists were often getting involved politically for religious freedom and freedom of conscience. There is a book that I have that was very interesting. It's called tracks on liberty of conscience and persecution.

And y'all can pass that around if you'd like. Don't worry, I wrote my name in front of it. But page 315 of that book, there's information there that talks about an edict that was passed. And on the very day of the appearance of the edict, the London Baptist with Mr. W.

Kiffin and Mr. Henry Dinn at their head presented a humble apology with a protestation against the late wicked and most horrid, treasonable insurrection and rebellion acted in the city of London. Going on, he writes, they appealed to him, to the king, Shall the righteous suffer with the wicked? God forbid. Must your peaceable subjects be judged rioters, whilst many unpeaceable ones, such as swearers and drunkards, are free from that judgment?

They therefore request that a righteous distinction be made in the administration of punishment, lest the cries of the innocent and the ruined families come up before the Lord, whilst your prisons are filled with such as whose prayers have come up to the throne of grace on your Majesty's behalf." They conclude by intimidating that Conscience will constrain them still to meet together for the worship of God, however it may be forbidden, though it cost them the loss of all they have and are. From such a great loss they would not shrink, but by divine strength bear it meekly and patiently. But by divine strength, baring meekly and patiently. Those appeals were useless. Persecution was determined upon.

Mr. Hansard Nulles and many other godly and peaceable persons were hailed out of their houses and committed to prison. Mr. Vosor Powell's house was violently entered, he himself seized, and with many others kept prisoners for about nine weeks. And great numbers were mirrored in close dungeons.

For about nine weeks and in great numbers were in close dungeons. Some of those names you'll recognize as signers of the Second London. These were guys that were very similar to us. By the time of the writing of the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith, the particular Baptists wanted to show the world that they were indeed Orthodox, that they weren't radicals like some of the others. And so, they did take and so there's some similarities, a lot of similarities between, for instance, the Westminster Confession and the Second London Confession in 1689.

But in chapter 23 on civil magistrates there is a big difference in the original West Minister. The West Minister said, The West Minister said the civil magistrate may not assume to himself the administration of the Word and sacraments, or the power of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, yet he hath authority. It is his duty to take order that unity and peace be preserved in the church, that the truth of God be kept pure and entire, that all blasphemies and heresies be suppressed, all corruptions and abuses in worship and discipline prevented or reformed, All the ordinances of God duly settled, administered, and observed for the better effecting whereof he hath power to call sinans to present at them and to provide that whatsoever is transacted in them be according to the mind of God." Paragraph four he said, it is the duty of the people to pray for magistrates, to honor their persons, to pay them tribute and other dues, to obey their lawful commands, and to be subject to their authority for conscience sake. Infidelity or difference in religion does not make void the magistrate's just and legal authority, nor free the people from their obedience to him, from which ecclesiastical persons are not exempted, much less hath the pope any power or jurisdiction over them in their dominions or over any of their people, and least of all to deprive them of their dominions or lives if he shall judge them to be heretics or upon any other pretense whatsoever.

You see, the particular Baptists did not put those things in the Second London because they knew. Baptists long held to the separation of church and state. As Dr. Ronald Rumber wrote in his book, Baptists in the State, I think I've brought that one too, it's kind of an interesting book. I only remember where I picked this one up at, But he wrote, Baptists have not believed in the separation of their faith from the state.

And so that's the key, right? We don't believe that the church should control the state or the state should control the church, nor do we believe that Christianity ought to be kept outside of the sphere of side of the spear of the political realm. In John Christian's history of the Baptists, he says, the happy succession of William and Mary to the throne of England, February 13th 1689, and the passage of the Toleration Act on May 24th following secured comparative liberty to the Baptists. They were tolerated, but still under the power of the state. Great had been their sufferings, but they had remained consistent in their advocacy of the rights of conscience.

Their views had prevailed at tremendous sacrifice. The Baptists were the first and the only pounders of absolute liberty, says the celebrated John Locke. Just and true liberty, equal and impartial liberty." And so we see the English Baptist played a big part of that. And we can thank God that God in His providence raised up Baptists in those places, and we're thankful for the things that happened over there, the Puritans and all, but the influence of the Baptists. And then our country, You think about there was a fight over who could control this piece of land.

This is the history of the Baptist I was referencing. But it could have gone from a human standpoint, could have been Spain, could have been France, could have been any other but England. And so we thank God for those for those Baptists who were at the front of the fight. Of course there were others too, the Quakers and some of the Puritans as well, but at the front, at the front, leading the charge politically were the Baptists. They understood, they understood that every time somebody got a hold of the political power and wanted to make a state church out of it, others suffered.

And so toleration was a step in the right direction, but it is not what we have enjoyed here with religious liberty. Philip Shaffey, in his History of the Christian Church, again I don't have that one, That one was an e-book that I've got. But he said, the act of toleration under the reign of William and Mary, 1689, made an end to violent persecutions in England. And yet it is far from what we have now understood by religious liberty. Toleration is negative, liberty is positive, toleration is a favor, liberty a right, toleration may be withdrawn by the power which grants it.

Liberty is as inalienable as conscience itself. Toleration is extended to what cannot be helped and what may be in itself objectionable. Liberty is a priceless gift of the Creator. And so we come to our side of the Atlantic. And for the next few moments I want to talk about that because we found similar issues here.

And It's forgotten a lot of times that there was a struggle in the beginning Here and there were Baptists that fought Politically for the things that we enjoy Indeed you could read about John Clark and Obadiah Holmes and the men of political times. For time's sake, I'll just mention the Revolutionary War period. There's a really neat book that I've had for a long time. This is the second copy I had of it because I gave away my original copy Baptist of the American Revolution Was written in 1875 at the 100 year anniversary of the revolution by William Cathcart and Cathcart Cathcart said this He said Baptists have been the ardent friends of civil and religious liberty. Their history in the New world overflows with testimonies of this character.

They have never regarded the military profession with much favor, and as a ruler have only resorted to arms in great emergencies when the worst enemies threatened an entire people, so that we must not look for them among the principal commanders of the revolution." And isn't that true? Baptists even of our own generation, generations that have gone on, have been stepped up and fought, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, all those places, and we thank God for them. The Baptist, thinking about political, the Baptist by the inspiration of his renewed nature and by his heaven-given principles, Cathcart says, is a lover of universal liberty. He will not rob a child of its freedom by making it a church member through infant baptism before his exercise its choice or the Spirit has bestowed His grace. He will not force any man by law to give any financial or other support to his own religious opinions, nor will he inflict punishment for any supposed heresies.

He who holds these doctrines is necessarily in favor of unfurling the flag of freedom over every quarter of the earth and over every human being who can safely set it liberty. Cathcart records in his book that during the Revolutionary War period, sermons covering political themes such as repealing the Stamp Act, liberty, and so on, were preached, and pastors served in the effort as chaplains, and some even served as spies. The Philadelphia Association of Baptists were very active in the early years of this country. There were many associations, But I focused in on the Philadelphia Association because when you study them and look at them, they were the biggest association. And also, they adopted the 1689 confession.

They added another arty corps 2 to it, but ultimately it's the same as the second London. And they kept really good records. I mean, Baptists aren't always good at keeping records, but these guys did. In fact, Baptist Standard Bear reprinted their minutes from 1707 to 1807. Really neat book to study and to read some of the things that were going on in those days.

In 1776, What were these guys doing during the war? 1776, they were still meeting. Even though the war was going on, they met. They were encouraging the churches to be much in prayer, encouraging the churches to reading of scriptures, worship, maintaining discipline and to be watchful against drowsiness In fact In fact, this is what they said this association taking into consideration the awful impending calamities of these times and deeply impressed with a sense of our duty to humble ourselves before God by acknowledging our manifold sins and imploring His pardon and interposition in favor of our distressed country, and also to beseech him to grant that such blessings may accompany the means of his grace, that a revival of pure and undefiled religion may universally prevail, resolved, that it be, and is hereby recommended to our churches, to observe four days of humiliation in the year ensuing by prayer abstinence from food and labor and recreations lawful on other days. The days proposed for humiliation are the Friday before the last Lord's Day in November, February, May, and August.

They didn't mean to They didn't mean to blast, to slander the British. They didn't mean to gather and discuss the war effort necessarily. They meant out of great spiritual concern. I think sometimes we miss that. I mean, growing up, growing up, I heard some great sermons, but I also heard anytime, anytime that anything was going on, it was just against the guys on the outside.

It was against the Democrats. It was against Saddam Hussein. These guys were focused on what's going on and how that they could make be better Christians and make their country better. 1777 was the only year during the war that they didn't meet, but it was prayer and fasting that was on their minds every year that they met in 1779 they sent a circular letter on that very subject to the churches. Oh and by the way in the midst of all the things that have been going on this war that have been dragging on and all those things a lot of people forget that the war for independence lasted so long But in the midst of the conflict that same year, what was their concern?

It's in the book there. They were concerned about the catechizing of children. That was their focus. They were concerned about the next generation. As the landscape was consumed with war, they didn't let it consume them, you see.

I think there's something that we can learn from those Baptists before. The new country was born in the midst of all that and we got our Constitution. It's worth noting, I thought about going deeper into this but you can study it out for yourselves But were it not for the Baptists of Virginia, especially John Leland We would not have a bill of rights We would not have the First Amendment, which states, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievance. And so we can thank God that these men were involved politically. As we move forward, you know, there's highlights in our country's history, there's things that happened.

Of course, it didn't take long until the landscape was once again moved. The war to prevent southern independence occurred and people were torn up. There's a book That I've loved, I've enjoyed. I read a little bit in it every so often, but it's called Christ in the Camp by J. Williams Jones.

He was a chaplain. He was a chaplain in Lee's army. In it, he details the revival that took place during those times. The things that were happening. What was going on?

Well, for one, Christians weren't fighting each other so much you know that's that's something seems like seems like that happens a lot in times of peace but when when times of trouble come around we we remember who the real enemy is. In the introduction of the book, there's an introduction written by a Methodist minister. He was an eyewitness. And all through the book, Jones has testimony, not only of Baptists, but of others who worked together for the cause of Christ. Listen to what this Methodist wrote.

He said, I would add my testimony to that of Dr. Jones on the evangelical tone of the preaching and worship in our army. Chaplains and visiting ministers determined not to know anything among them save Jesus Christ and Him crucified. It was always assumed that the cause for which they contended was righteous. On it was evoked the divine blessing and the troops were exhorted to faithful service, but the grounds of the war were not discussed.

Constitutional and historical questions were passed by, except a certain local coloring such as illustrations drawn from active military life and appeals based on the perils of war. The sermons in the camp would have suited any congregation in city or country and with even less change might have been preached to the Union armies. Eternal things, the claims of God, the worth of the soul, the wages of sin which is death, and the gift of God which is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord, these were the matter of preaching. The marrow and fatness of the gospel were set forth the style was not controversial speculative or curious but imminently practical indirect There were pathos and urgency of appeal. The hearers were besought to immediate and uncompromising action, for the time was short.

The songs, prayers, lay testimonies, and exhortations, In a word, all the exercises were in the same line. There was no string of bad blood, no inflaming of malice and revenge. The man of God lifted up, not the stars and bars, but the cross, and pressed the inquiry, who among you are on the Lord's side. Brothers, I love the American flag and truth be told, I love the history of this country and the history of our state. I had ancestors who fought for the South.

I love the history of the Confederacy. We have a great heritage here in this country. There are some issues politically that really get my blood pumping. But may Jesus Christ and Him crucified always be preeminent in our preaching. Don't be distracted by the political whims of the world in such a way that we lose focus or get divided.

And that's how the enemy works. There's a set of commentaries, and I meant to write it down. Maybe one of y'all know about it. Anyway, Brodus was one of them. He wrote Matthew.

It was a New Testament set. They started out working on it before the war. The war happened and they had to stop. There's Baptist from both sides of the Mason-Dixon. After the war they picked up and they finished that set.

And I've got that set. I pieced it together. I don't know if it's even still in print. But it's a testimony of the focus of the Baptists of that time period. They weren't slinging mud at each other.

They weren't trying to divide and all that sort of thing. And all that sort of thing. They got together when they could and they finished the work that they needed to do in their times. I had a question. So I deal with this kind of question a lot with my brother-in-law.

He's not a Christian, but he claims to be very conservative and very patriotic. And He just can't understand why I won't get in the pulpit and preach political views. Right. And so it begs the question, Scripturally, and I know many people argued about this, scripturally was the Revolutionary War biblical? Was it lawful?

Did we have the right to rebel against the king? You know, we've had this conversation, haven't we? I mean, the Bible is very clear that we are to submit to those in the position of authority over us. So when is it lawful to rebel against the government? Now, I understand that the government can never exercise its authority to compel us to break God's law.

That's sovereign. But what other issues could lawfully, according to the scriptures, compel us to rebel against our government. If they're going to take away our second amendment rights to bear arms. Is that a lawful argument that we have? I mean, you know, people have idolized and scripturalized the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

God gave us these rights. You know, we were written by men. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so whenever we're dealing with any kind of political issue, it's a question that we must stand on the Word of God.

And the Revolutionary War is a complex issue, as was the so-called Civil War. The so-called Civil War. However, quite recently, there were Some people who have been kind of rethinking Romans 13 and all of those things, because of some of the things that are going on in our own country. I don't know if you all have seen it. Probably.

I'm kind of the latecomer to the group, but political revolution in the reformed tradition by none other than Sam Waldron. This is what he says about the subject. He said, He said, How does a Christian citizen or subject respond to civil war? A bewildering multiplicity of specific situations may be imagined here. Generally speaking, it is the Christian's duty to form a just conception of the party to whom political sovereignty belongs on the basis of the pre-existing civil order.

To that party, his political subordination must belong, although the precise degree to which he actively supports in practical ways that party is dependent on other factors. If the Christian finds it impossible to form a clear conviction as to the identity of his civil authorities on the basis of the pre-existing civil order, he is at liberty to decide, first, on the basis of biblical and ethical preferences, and then on the basis of prudential considerations, which party, if any, he will give his support and to what degree. No matter what decisions the Christian has made in the earlier stages of such conflict, the time may come in which the Christian must soberly recognize the results of armed force and submit to the orderings of divine providence. At such time his options are to subordinate himself to the new powers-to-be, or flight from the country dominated by such powers, and subordination to the civil authorities of his new country. The covert prolonging of hostilities and armed violence after the public defeat of one's party must be carefully avoided by the Christian in the fear of becoming a thief and murder in the eyes of God.

It's a very complex issue, right? I think ultimately Christians are not to lead in a revolution, we're not to lead in a war, in a civil war, but if one breaks out, What Waldron is saying here from what I understand is that we've got to determine which side we're going to be on and then if that side loses we need to submit to the side that wins or we need to leave town. Does that make sense? I mean you know it's it's not it is complex. It's not cut and dry.

I've heard people that claim to be Christian say, I don't want to pay taxes because they use my taxes for abortion. Right. Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's. He didn't qualify that statement. Yep.

You know, we're not accountable. We're accountable for what we do. We're accountable for our obedience to God and the scripture. Not for the government. Not for if they misuse our money or whatever.

That's not something we're accountable for. In our culture we have a right to vote. We should vote our conscience. If others get in and they do it the wrong way, there's nothing we can do. It's very complex.

Think about if you were in Germany during Hitler's day, and you have some Jews next door, are you going to hide them? Or if you've got a family member that's hiding Jews, are you going to go and tell the German authorities that there's Jews hiding there? You know, those sorts of things, right? And so, you know, how do you view all these things? Well, there's conscience, there's also scripture, right?

But Romans chapter 13 is very, very clear, right? That if you disobey, and all through the Bible, if you disobey the laws of the land, And even if you got a good reason for it, you got to be willing to pay the price, right? And so those sorts of things are definitely things to consider. And there's another aspect of this as well, especially in our day and age, with the continuing growing popularity of the theanomic post-millennial movement. That really, At the very heart of that issue is church and politics.

Yes, it is Yeah And It was recommended to me by a friend whenever I told him I was doing this study. So I got it off of Amazon. But the, and I mean in Acts chapter 4 verses 18 and 19, we have Peter and John, and it says, And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all, nor teach in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John answered and said unto them, whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard." And so the word of God's got to be our baseline, even whenever it goes against the party line.

And there are some issues that get to be pretty hairy and And and we saw that Happen about four years ago in a big way whenever whenever they started through the health department Suggesting and in some states trying to force churches to close down. And you know, every church had to decide, what are we going to do? They said it was just for a couple weeks, and then it turned into a lot longer. And There were some who did stand against the government a big way. I mean, we were pretty fortunate here in Georgia.

We didn't have any kind of big, Governor Kemp wasn't real hard on us, But California was pretty hard. John MacArthur, his case got a lot of publicity. Those elders there, John MacArthur of Grace Community Church, they faced huge legal battles from 2020 to 2021. Same thing goes for James Coates, pastor of Grace Life Church in Edmonton, Canada. He actually went to jail.

Nathan Bucinich and James Coates wrote this book called God versus Government. It's a very good book. I recommend this to every pastor thinking about modern politics. Grace Community Church actually did a video called The Essential Church. If you've never seen that, I bought a copy and then they gave it away for free at G3 and then now they've got it online free streaming on grace media.

I'm glad you're getting it out there though It's good. It's it's really good watch that And You know, even even if even if you didn't have to the heavy hand of a governor You know, we had to navigate some of those things, like vaccines and masks. I had some nurses in our church that didn't feel like that they wanted to have the vaccines, but they were being forced. And so they came to me and asked me to write a letter to try to help them argue against taking it for conscience sake. It didn't work, but you know, those are things we have to navigate sometimes for religious reasons.

I'm not writing you a letter. You don't go to church. You're not religious. Right. But, you know, anybody who's, you know, conservative is a Christian.

Yeah. They use that term synonymously. So I didn't write him a letter. No. Because that's not your religious belief.

You don't want to get it because you don't like the government. Yeah. That's political, it's not religious. So you're not going to write your political letter. Exactly.

Exactly. There were people though, especially younger women, that really believed it would mess up their ability to get pregnant. They were in churches and they had that conviction. I would write them a letter. We had one of our deacons, he wasn't a deacon at the time, but he and his entire family, they are completely and totally like the rest of us against abortion.

And of course, they looked at how all vaccines are made. And so for them, it was a matter of conscience. And they wouldn't do it. And they risk losing their jobs. Yeah, definitely.

And out there committed. We sat down with them and we said, well, that's a matter of conscience for you. Can't force that on everybody's conscience. You can't, you know, you can't harm. You can't tell people they're going to hell because they've got a vaccine, right?

But I mean, yeah, Yeah, yeah same thing with you know, the You know that and the masks and mask mandates and all that sort of thing I mean, you know, so navigating through political issues sometimes it does it does hit very close to home. So we have to navigate those things, keeping in mind what is clear in the scriptures and what is a matter of conscience. Just helping people out, pointing them to the scriptures and to Christ and I think that's the theme that we find through the scriptures as well as through Baptist history as well. You know reminding people, reminding people that it's a blessing to live in the United States, it's a blessing to be here in the South, but we are, If you're in Christ, we're citizens of a heavenly kingdom.